im sick of guitar

I try to put in about 3-4 hrs min practice time a day, but I'll be bumping that up soon.

Well, I would listen to Wes and Note over me any day but if you do what I quoted, and you are frustrated, then I would just about lay a paycheck down that on you definately quitting should you "bump it up". I'll rephrase something key that Wes said. Its not about how much you practice, its about how you practice. Its also about having a noteboat of fun. Do something for the fun of it, and you'll do it for life.

Jim

Do it for the joy of doing it, and you'll love it forever.

That pretty much nails it for me.

Setting goals that relate to the skills of other people can be a two-edged sword and can lead to a lot of frustration.

I try and mix having fun with doing a bit of work that's more serious and focused, but it's the joy of doing that's always the reward - not where I might or might not get to next week. I'd sure like to be faster, cooler, 'more bluesy' or 'harder rocking' when I play (and sometimes I do bring it off) but if I start getting tense about it then I just relax, look out the window and play like me for a while. And that's starting to sound pretty OK now. :)

Good to hear that you didn't chuck it in. 8)

Cheers,

Chris

I try to put in about 3-4 hrs min practice time a day, but I'll be bumping that up soon.

Well, I would listen to Wes and Note over me any day but if you do what I quoted, and you are frustrated, then I would just about lay a paycheck down that on you definately quitting should you "bump it up". I'll rephrase something key that Wes said. Its not about how much you practice, its about how you practice. Its also about having a noteboat of fun. Do something for the fun of it, and you'll do it for life.

Jim

I'm surely among the least experienced guitar players here, but I just have to chime in as agreeing with Jim here. That's a *lot* of time to be practising every day, it seems to me. It reminds me of a couple things: serious athletes don't work out hard every day, they alternate light / easy days; employees, on average, will get more done working 40 hrs / week than 60 hrs / week if it's a permanent schedule.

I personally would guess that practising so intensely is actually counterproductive. It's not like your practising a setlist for an upcoming tour here - I say take it easy! (Or at least easier.)

Edit: Sorry, saying "counterproductive" might be a little harsh and not quite true, but it's probably not 4x better to practice 4 hours a day than 1 hour a day.

I didn't mean to get down on you when I said "whining", but you should probably adjust your expectations....

It's going to take you 'months' to get where you want to be???

I've been playing a long time. My first paid gig was about 32 years ago, and I've been teaching guitar professionally for about 29 years now. It's still going to take me YEARS to get where I want to be!

Be in it for the long haul, and you'll do ok. Expect to be a shredder overnight, and you'll only be frustrated.

I meant for this one song I am practicing. It's going to take me a lifetime to play like my idol (buckethead) haha

By no means am I so arrogant to imply that in only a few short months I'll be ripping like a pro. Far from it.

But one poster did say it well. Guitar is like a friend and sometimes it does give you grief.

Sitting down and just watching some of my heroes play always helps me. You guys gave me some good encouragement too. I'm in it for the long run. Been playing 5.5 years. Hopefully I'll still love it as much as you older folks who have been playing it for much longer when I am your age. I envy you guys! Thanks for the advice everyone

And I don't know about your advice for cutting down my practice time.

I understand where you are all coming from, but a little over a year ago I made the decision that I really wanted to get good at guitar.

I'll spare you the long story but basically I saw Buckethead playing with Les Claypool, two of my biggest musical heroes and I just decided that I wanted to play like that. I started to read up on all these really killer players who play faster styles and all of them practiced (or "played") at least 6-12 hours a day it seemed. I think that honestly if I want to ever have a hope of playing half as good as some of my idols I am going to have to put in the practice time. I can't naturally play fast and I don't even necessarily want to play shred stuff, but I feel that if I do not invest the time to work on "shredding" techniques like alternate picking I am some how cheating myself out of another palette that I could have in the old noggin for when I am writing a song.

I don't think my practice time is that counterproductive. I try to keep it fresh and work on different stuff. I probably spend about 1-2 hours doing theory and chord progressions on the guitar and in some books, an hour or two doing some various technique stuff (been working on slapping a lot lately :D ), maybe another hour working on some songs I have set out to learn (like that damn Morse thing), and a LOT (probably too much!) time jamming along with progressions I come up with on my looping pedal.

If I get sick of guitar I study theory or play my bass.

I kind of committed myself to playing for AT LEAST 2 or 3 hours a day and I feel guilty (like really guilty) if I don't. I have no great ambitions to become a rock star or set the world on fire (I am 23 years old), I just want to be able to play the stuff that I hear in my head as I drift off to sleep every night. And I know that the only way I will ever do it is through digging my teeth in and putting in the hours and hours each day of practice time.

I guess that's why I got so frustrated when I made my first post. To me, the progress has been gradual and maybe I can't really see the results, but I suppose I have gotten at least a little better over all this time, you can just kind of loose sight of the forest amidst the trees I guess if that makes any sense.

Don't know if any of you actually read this, hopefully you got something out of it. I just needed somewhere to vent basically. It can get frustrating sometimes.

Thanks

Ab, I've been playing 5 years and 3 months so about the same as you. I think I suck when I play with others, watch live bands in a bar or watch the pros. Still, I know that at least I can play something. Really that's all that matters. We're not professionals. If we were we'd be 10x better but that would be a job. For me at least, guitar is a hobby and you said you don't think of making it big or anything.

So just make it fun! :D Rock on that instrument and do what you do best on it. On a side note, I've come to realize I have my own "personality" in my playing. I know it blows compared to most guitar players I've ever played with or seen. Still, I'm happy knowing I do what I do and to heck with everyone else. I do what I do. Every forumite does what he/she does. Once you get to accepting that things are good.

Right on, man, it sounds like you are generally pretty disciplined and dedicated to improving your guitar skills. Practicing for 3+ hours a day could definitely be very productive, but I definitely start to consider quality vs quantity issues at that point; for me, I think I would burn myself out if I played that much every single day. It would basically mean wake up, go to work, come home, play guitar, then go to bed; that doesn't seem like a balanced lifestyle for me, personally.

One thing I just have to respond to - what do you have to feel guilty about if you don't practice enough? I really think there is a lot of value in taking a day off sometimes.

(I recently was introduced to Buckethead, by the way, and he is definitely quite awesome.)

Here's a random (and drunken :P) thought - one of my favorite bands is Rush, and Lifeson definitely seems to be an ever-improving better guitar player, more skilled now than he was in the early days of Rush. Still, some of my asbolute favorite Rush songs, and favorite guitar parts, are found within the first few Rush albums. It really is often more about creativity and songwriting knowledge than it is about physical skills, IMO.

Cheers,

Oh. And this is the moment were we should say:"Please, don't go! We know it's hard but be pateint!". Whatever. Music ain't for everyone.

You serious man? This is THAT moment - we've done it in countless of threads, that's what makes these forums so great; the unending support and advice that we give eachother.

I really don't get this response, as well as a few others I've read in this thread. This is one of the reasons we are here, its to give eachother help when we're down and out, to inspire eachother.

Abs - seems like you've gotten all the advice you need here. I will say that the time you spend jamming with loops can never be too much. For even more fun, try jamming with real people. Honestly, improvisation is what inspires me to play guitar every day - jamming with real people gives me such a boost of love for music that I can't put the guitar down for days.

As far as practice time goes, you're right - most of the really fast shredders do practice 5-6 hours per day. I've seen the interviews with claims of 12 hour days too... but I very much doubt that. A lot of people play 12 hours a day - I'd wager about a third of the people at Berklee do that on any given day. But I don't think they're practicing that much.

I make a living with the guitar, so it's not unusual for me to have one in my hands for 10-12 hours a day. But I have a narrow definition of "practice" - it's focused time spent on maintaining and improving my skills. I do that about 2-3 hours per day, and I did 5 hours or more when I was younger.

As far as speed picking, that's a mechanical skill, and increasing the practice time really will bring increased results. It's true that there are diminishing returns, but I know from experience that if I triple the time spent on metronome drills, I pick up 5% or more in bpm.

Voidious noted that serious athletes don't work out hard every day. That's true... but they work a lot harder than amateur athletes. Marathon runner Frank Shorter once said "nobody who works for a living will ever beat me". The 'easy' days of the elite, in sports or music, are probably a lot harder than the 'hard' days for the rest of the world.

But it's still more important to practice right than to practice long. I have a student who puts in 5 hours a day, and wants to be a shredder. His reaction time is probably faster than mine... and I think we both know it. So it really ticks him off that he can't play as fast as I do. That's because his fingers are spending a lot of time flapping around; mine don't move nearly as much.

I say it over and over: practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Make sure you're practicing right, and it'll come in time.

I probably have a guitar in my hand for at least 6-8 hours a day - how much of that is what Noteboat calls "focussed practise" is hard to pin down. But I'd say ALL practise is useful practise. A lot of my time is spent with either the radio on or WM player on, with me playing along - if nothing else, that's great for improving your timing.

I believe what you learn in one song can be used in others...for instance, a few years back, I was shown an A augmented chord by a friend who showed me Lennon's "Starting Over." First time I'd ever seen that chord, it was a bit tricky at first but eventually I got the hang of it. A couple of years later, I was trying to work out for myself "You Got It" - the Roy Orbison song. Tried a few tabs off the net, but there was one tricky bit in the pre-chorus that didn't seem quite right. I don't quite know where it came from - subconscious? - but I somehow connected the sound with the Aaug chord from Starting Over - tried it, and it worked. Those are still the only songs I know that use that particular chord, but if I come across it again I'll recognise it.

I would think that the same applies to shredding - surely the techniques you learn in one song can be used in others? I don't actually practise scales as such - I practise little runs and solos, try and vary them every now and then, but then again I'm mostly a rhythm guitarist. Practising the same things over and over, day in day out, I think I'd soon want to throw the guitars through the window. If you're going to spend that much time playing per day, try and introduce some variation so you're not bored.

I once heard - I don't know if it's true or not - a story about John Fogerty. I was told that after Creedence split, he rented an office and went in every day - 8 hours a day - just to practise guitar and write songs. Now that's focussed!

:D :D :D

Vic

Ive been trying to learn to play again for about the last 3 years or so (Im 41 now, packed in playing when I was about 20!). I dont have lessons and try and piece it together from books, mags, listening and 'ear'. I know I'm pretty rubbish but I enjoy noodling away at home in my own little world. By very small increments Im probably improving, even if it s only as mundane as getting a clean fast change from C to F or whatever. I'm trying to get my head around scales and modes and stuff but struggling. I just try and enjoy what I do. Hey Vic - you only live a couple of miles away. Fancy being a mentor?

You guys are crazy! Man, if I get 45 minutes of guitar a day I'm walking on sunshine. While I'm all for the "put in as much time as possible" per day, you gotta live. Man, you're only 23 ONCE.

meh i have no life/ girlfriend i figure i better at least have something to show for it

I just want to be able to play the stuff that I hear in my head as I drift off to sleep every night.

Here some excercises to do just that. It's called ear training, or connecting the sounds you hear in your head with your fingers on the guitar.

1. Think of any simple little tune you have heard, it could be from a car commercial, a movie, anything. Now pick up your guitar and try to play it. (1-8-hun-dred safe au-to play it safe safe au-to) Do this a few times a day with new songs. The point is to get started on figuring out simple music you already know, so that later you can do the same thing with something your writing.

2. Play a note or series of notes and then look any fret, try to guess the way that fret will sound in your head and then check yourself. Always take a second to learn that 2 note span (named intervals would help here, dont know where you are on that)

3. Try to write a song by getting a few good notes you like to start. Now play the notes back in your head and think of the next part without using your guitar. Then pick up your guitar and find the new part.

I can really relate to ab0msnwman, I have always been a "practice freak". When I started I used to practice from the time I got home from school and later work until late at night. I was practicing 6-8 hours per day for real. And even now I practice 2-3 hours on weeknights and probably 6-8 hours on weekends. But practice has never been a chore for me, I absolutely love playing.

But you know what? I am not that good. For all these thousands of hours practice I really should be able to play like Buckethead or other great players. But I don't. I can play, and sometimes it's pretty great, but I am not in that league. And the reason is that my practice really never had structure. It has only been maybe the last 5 years where I have disciplined myself to play exercises that will push my technique up a notch. And I have seen gradual, but real progress.

So I do think it helps to take lessons or buy some good technical books that will improve your playing. I have been practicing from a book called Speed Mechanics by Troy Stetina for some time now. I don't actually play his exact exercises, but I do try to learn the techniqes he is teaching and then apply to my own style. But now I have some structure to my practice and I think it has paid off.

I have been playing long enough to know that you have to be patient. Just keep practicing good technique and the skill will develop. But it takes a while. If you wanted to learn sweep picking, it would probably take 2 or 3 years of constant practice to really develop the technique. This is how guitar is, you have to put in the hours.

But realize right now that guitar can be frustrating. Today you think you are the greatest player in the world, tomorrow the worst. Next week you will think you are great again. This is how guitar will always be. :D