I was just listening to a Joe Satriani CD I just bought on the way in to work. I have not listened to him before, and I was amazed at the incredible sustain he had. This was without much distortion; sounded kind of "sweet and long" for want of a better term, almost like a violin. Even when he picked multiple notes, I could hardly hear the picking.
Now, I am far far far from even thinking about trying to emulate him, but I was just wondering: what is the major component of that? Is it primarily in the fingers or the fingers and the amp, or is there a particular effect that gives you great sustain? (Enquiring minds want to know :-))
--vink
"Life is either an adventure or nothing" -- Helen Keller
I'm not saying Vai uses one of these but it could be an Ebow or he could have a guitar fitted with a Fernandes sustainer, which does the same thing, except that it's built into the guitar under the pickguard. Both, properly used, will allow (for all practical purposes) infinite sustain.
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Well he most certainly has a compressor in his gear so this will account for some of his sustain. Basically if a frequency drops below a threshold it will boost it up to that threshold. So as the strings start to loose energy the compressor will boost the volume.
Thanks for the quick replies, guys! So, I went and looked at guitargeek, and it lists under gadgets: GROOVE TUBES FAT FINGER GUITAR SUSTAINER
http://guitargeek.com/rigview/293/
[EDIT: However, this gadget seems to be a rather simple attachment to the guitar after looking at the details, not an electronic one].
--vink
"Life is either an adventure or nothing" -- Helen Keller
Well he most certainly has a compressor in his gear so this will account for some of his sustain. Basically if a frequency drops below a threshold it will boost it up to that threshold. So as the strings start to loose energy the compressor will boost the volume.
Pretty much ... but it's based on amplitude, not frequency. Also, high amplitude signals are attenuated to approach that same threshold.
I think Greybeard is correct. I seem to recall that Satch and Vai and similar have or are users of the Fernandes Sustainer.
BWT, espert control of feedback also allows for clean, "infinite" sustain,
-G
-=tension & release=-
Thanks for the quick replies, guys! So, I went and looked at guitargeek, and it lists under gadgets: GROOVE TUBES FAT FINGER GUITAR SUSTAINER
http://guitargeek.com/rigview/293/
Isn't a Fat Finger just a piece of metal clamped to the headstock to increase its mass? ............. Yep. Here's the bass version: LINK. There is no way this creates infinite sustain.
-=tension & release=-
There is no way this creates infinite sustain.
Yeah, that does not seem to be it .. I posted the link before I went and looked at the details. The Fernandes site lists Steve Vai as a user, not Joe Satriani, but he might be using something like that as well. Pretty neat...
--vink
"Life is either an adventure or nothing" -- Helen Keller
just bought the G3 Tokyo tour dvd off ebay, can't wait to watch Satriani, Vai and Petrucci play La Grange and smoke on the water, i bet they tear it up!
Thinkin' bout the times we had
Some were good and some were bad
guitar fightin' the tv
i was thinkin bout you and me
I'm sure he uses a compressor. But more importantly, he probably used a low powered tube amp pushed way into saturation. With a good overdrive or distortion pedal into a pushed amp like this, you can get almost endless sustain.
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
But more importantly, he probably used a low powered tube amp pushed way into saturation. With a good overdrive or distortion pedal into a pushed amp like this, you can get almost endless sustain.
Really? Now you're really tempting me to get an attenuator for that Galaxy 10, and I had resolved that I won't spend any more money on that for a while, it was supposed to be a cheap tube amp :-)
--vink
"Life is either an adventure or nothing" -- Helen Keller
It is probably a f.e.e.d.b.a.c.k loop, when the sound coming out of the amp is picked up by the pickups creating an infinite loop. Carlos Santana often uses this technique, as does Hendrix (Star Spangled Banner anyone?). Get really close to the amp and turn it up a lot (to 11!) and play a note, with practice you can get this to occur when you want.
EDIT: Why the heck does f.e.e.d.b.a.c.k (feedback) come up as embrace?
The cheapest solution would be a compressor/limiter. The loud parts get lowered and the low parts get boosted, this creates a even sound that will last a pretty long time. Using a booster will help, it can push otherwise inaudible parts into the compressor which will boost it right up loud. Make sure you do not use a noise gate before the compressor or the effect will be greatly reduced and you'll be left with a sudden volume drop after a while. Feedback is an option but that's much harder and requires relatively high volumes. Satriani often plays legato for lengthy parts which could be why you don't hear the picking.
Don't have my gear at hands at the moment but for the Code Blue Blues collaboration I used the Vox AD30 and a compressor pedal. It's the 4x10 amp model, low gain and some medium compression. I used a noise gate to cut the sustain but it shouldn't be too hard to imagine how it would sound with heavy compression and no gate, if you care I can record that when I get back. Since you already have the Vox amp you'd only need a compression pedal to get such a sustain. Mine was $19 new but they exist in every priceclass you can imagine.
vink said,
Really? Now you're really tempting me to get an attenuator for that Galaxy 10, and I had resolved that I won't spend any more money on that for a while, it was supposed to be a cheap tube amp
The pros use lots of tricks. Often in the studio a low power amp is used. The amp is pushed to saturation. In addition, effects and compression are used. So you have to remember this when you listen to any recording.
You will be surprised how great a little amp can sound pushed. I used to take my little Premier amp to Open Mics. It is maybe 5 watts total. I would turn it up full and mic it into the PA with distortion and overdrive pedals into it. I could hold notes for what seemed like forever. But I was not using an attenuator. There was no need. This amp does not get very loud. It has to be mic'd to use live.
The most important thing is tone. If you can get the tone, you can get the sustain various ways.
And McDouggy is correct. A lot of this is just feedback. But when your amp is really cranked, you can get feedback on any note really.
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
Oh, and if you want to hear real sustain, listen to the old song
Is It Love by T. Rex
This is a difficult song to get ahold of. I don't know what Marc Bolan was using, but he was holding single notes forever. I cannot think of any recording where I have heard more sustain than this song.
I don't believe he was using an e-bow. You can hear that. A good example is Heros by David Bowie. That is the e-bow.
If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis
To add to what wes said: a low wattage amp is WAY prefferable over a high wattage amp with an attenuator. Attenuators typically change your sound quite a bit, not just the volume, and by lowering the volume you aren't driving your speakers as hard which is a big part of the sound. If you do try it, go for a speakerdriver-based attenuator instead of the resistence/indcution network-based ones, they change your sound least.
