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Lookin4 advice from veterans- Soloing

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(@dennett340)
Estimable Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 44
Topic starter  

I wanna learn to solo now. I want to learn to solo then strum and then solo again and strum and back and forth. This way of keeping of a groove while soloing seems so cool.

I can play the minor pent scale in all 5 positions right now. My questions are

1. how do you connect these positions? I can see where the notes overlap but I don't know how to transition smoothly and effectively. Are there any exercises for this?
2. how do I incorporate hammer on's, pull off's, slides, bends and vibrato into this?
I know how to do all these things but I don't know how to use them really in the context of melodic phrasing

There probably are a lot of other questions I SHOULD be asking but that's the extent of my knowledge right now.

Veterans- I'd really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks !

P.S. Also does anyone know where to find jam tracks that I can solo over? Free or not free- doesn't matter.


   
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(@dogbite)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 6348
 

backing tracks:

http://www.guitarbt.com

creating solos is not a formula. although one could be applied in a way. you use the techniques you understand to tell a story.
you build off the melodic line of the song. I take cues from my guitar heroes. Neil Young is a fantastic one string player.
well, he uses more than one string, but it sounds like he builds his licks off of one string and an open adjacent string.
bends and hammer ons etc give emotional interest to a lick. I love bends. instead of going to the complete interval I bend the note an interval. pure emotion.
it's hard to advise lick building. the more you try the better it gets.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders


   
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 Nuno
(@nuno)
Famed Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 3995
 

Perhaps a book could be useful in this case. I'd recommend "Blues you can use" by John Ganapes. It gives some answers to your questions. It shows the five minor pentatonic positions as you said and also shows how to connect them. And you will practice lots of bendings, slides, hammer ons, etc.

There are several threads on that book and the author also has a web site with complementary exercises and hints.


   
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 Ande
(@ande)
Prominent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 652
 

I'd learn some solos by players you admire, as well. Learn them good, note by note, then start trying to improvise around them. If you're good at theory (or if like me, you aren't but are hoping to be one day) try to see how they're built- what scales, what chord notes, how long the phrases are.

To change between positions, I just play where I am, then slide up (or down) the string I'm on to the next position I want to use. But heck, Eric Clapton seems able to play a mean solo without changing position at all, when he wants to. (Round Midnight.)

There are downloadable backing tracks, but making my own seems to be good for my playing. I started by learning a blues shuffle (12 bars, 3 chords) and recording it on audacity.

best,
Ande


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

1. how do you connect these positions? I can see where the notes overlap but I don't know how to transition smoothly and effectively. Are there any exercises for this?
2. how do I incorporate hammer on's, pull off's, slides, bends and vibrato into this?

1.slowly and clumsily at first, generally. just go ahead and do it. your fingers will develop intelligence. stay in one key and just search your way up and down and across the fingerboard.
2. bends generally occur with the 4th and flat 7th, but can be any note. vibrato when you're sitting on a note, hammer-ons and pull offs and slides when they sound right.

what i did was just try to make blues melodies and play whatever next note i was thinking about. if you just focus on the next note, the bigger picture slowly falls into place.


   
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(@corbind)
Noble Member
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 1735
 

It seems we need some more of the Big Dogs to come out and present their knowledge on this post. As a rhythm guitar player, I have a vested interest... :wink:

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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(@jimmybinder)
Trusted Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 32
 

Honestly, the best advice I can give is the same I give to writers --

If you want to be a good writer, you have to read everything you can get your hands on and do it every day.

If you want to play a good solo, you have to immerse yourself in the music you want to play (be that blues, metal, whatever) and listen to it all the time. Get the rhythms into your head, make it part of your blood. Only then will you be ready to start concocting your own -- and if my experience is any indicator, it's suddenly much easier to find a flow.


   
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(@gotdablues)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 129
 

Gotta go with what all these Guitar Nuts are saying, Bend, Bend, Bend. And Bend some more till, it hurts, then take a little break of course :x


   
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(@dylan-schwartz)
Eminent Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 26
 

I wanna learn to solo now. I want to learn to solo then strum and then solo again and strum and back and forth. This way of keeping of a groove while soloing seems so cool.

I can play the minor pent scale in all 5 positions right now. My questions are

1. how do you connect these positions? I can see where the notes overlap but I don't know how to transition smoothly and effectively. Are there any exercises for this?
2. how do I incorporate hammer on's, pull off's, slides, bends and vibrato into this?
I know how to do all these things but I don't know how to use them really in the context of melodic phrasing

There probably are a lot of other questions I SHOULD be asking but that's the extent of my knowledge right now.

Hey Man,

You're ambition is admirable. Soloing is an infinitely deep art form and the sooner you can start learning the basics the better.

Everyone else has offered great information [listen to Ande about stealing from your heros and Nuno about working with quality instructional materials] but let me see if I can add anything of value:

Suggestion #1: Until you can solo effectively using one pattern, don't bother learning five.

Some folks will argue with me about this but, when I was getting my degree, I had to solo over jazz standards while staying in a span of 4 or 5 frets and it helped my improvisation a ton. Within each guitar position there will generally be over 2 octaves of notes. That should be plenty of range to make a meaningful solo. In fact, I would say that, if you can't do it with a single position, you probably also can't do it with five.

There are plenty of David Gilmore, Buddy Guy, Freddie King, and T-Bone Walker solos that can be played within one position. Get a grip on that piece first and all of those additional positions will offer new avenues of expression instead of new avenues of confusion. When beginning, simpler is usually better.

Along those lines, I would work on lead and rhythm playing separately for a while and then learn how to bring them together. A really good soloist plays with enough rhythmic intensity that the groove is always implied. A good rhythm guitarist can play chords melodically as well as rhythmically. After a while of perfecting these skills separately, you will have a fairly easy time pulling them together.

Suggestion #2: Do NOT worry about sounding good [whatever that means anyway :wink: ].

While you're doing the work of learning solos from your heroes, working through books, and expanding your ear and technique, there is a very good chance that you will sound terrible to your own ears. Doesn't matter. Not one little bit. No one I have ever taught [and there have been hundreds] has sounded accomplished when they first started soloing. Many of them sound great now but it took time and a lot of guidance [another reason to have a good teacher on your side].

Your skills will be built up inch by inch, mile by mile. I've been playing for 17 years and there are a ton of holes in my playing that I'm working to fill as we speak. It will happen. I still have a few years left in me [and so do you]. :lol:

Regards,

Dylan Schwartz

blog.stillstrings.com
http://www.myspace.com/buddhajones

Chicago Guitar, Bass, and Improvisation Teacher
blog.stillstrings.com
www.stillstrings.com
http://www.myspace.com/buddhajones


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

i sort of agree with "stay in one position", in that it's a good idea to not feel the need to learn everything at once, but i also believe that it's ok to explore and expand outwards whenever your curiosity or instincts tell you to. i play solos in one position(sometimes within a single octave or even just a few notes), but i also enjoy letting my hands fly all over the fretboard.


   
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(@jersey-jack)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 189
 

Good advice here. I would emphasize the obvious but often overlooked fact that good soloing is composing. Hum along with your playing, thinking more about melodies than scales; limit yourself initially to the scale, of course, but imagine that you're writing a song, not simply stringing together licks and scales. Pretty soon your fingers will start to follow the melody in your head.

This, by the way, is why I don't much like shredding, which is a manner of soloing that is not very like composing. :roll:


   
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(@rum-runner)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 424
 

This is all good advice. I had been wondering about the same thing. I do mostly solo acoustic guitar/vocals. I took lead guitar lessons for about 2 years butmy techer pretty much just took me though various exercises in books and I never learned how to apply what I have learned to the real world.

I have heard that it is good to have sort of a "library" of licks and riffs that you should know well so that you can pull them out kind of spontaneously whist soliong, and mayve even do variations on these riffs kind of on the fly? Are there any soloists out there who do that?

Having taken lessons for two years, I know the major and minor pentatonic and whatever you call them- full eight note scales. So, knowing that, how do I begin to apply it to soloing? What do you other soloists do woth all these patterns and riffs? How did you prqctice in terms of developing solo techniques?

I feel I know the mechanics- the scales, the techniques such as bending, hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides, double stops,etc. I just don't know how to put it all together in a practical sense, excpt learning note-for-note solos.

Regards,

Mike

"Growing Older But Not UP!"


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4459
 

Rumrunner,

I'm kind of in the same boat and even though I've learned some solos note for note they haven't really helped alot to bridge the gap in soloing myself on the fly.

I did however use some pieces of a solo I had leraned when I was jamming with some friends last week and it actually worked out well.

personally I think Dylan has the best advice here and the only way to do it is to just do it. There are going to be plenty of off notes at first but eventually it will sink and like anything else with guitar there are no easy shorcuts to get you there it's all in your fingers and between your ears.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@notes_norton)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1497
 

Soloing is not instant gratification, but it is a worthy skill.

Here's my advice.

1) Listen, listen, listen. Listen to your favorite solos until you can sing along with the solo and even sing the solos without the recording being played. This trains your ear.

2) Learn all 5 positions of the blues scale (minor pentatonic with flatted 5th passing tone) and the major pentatonic with the added minor 3rd passing tone. Practice these each and every time you pick up the guitar.

3) Get a 12 bar blues backing track and practice doodling around with either the minor or major pentatonic in the key (there is no need to change when the chords change at first).

Try to make melodies, don't just play the scales.

What this will do for you is teach you hand-ear coordination. Either the major and minor pentatonic scale can be played over the 12 bar blues progression but the mood is entirely different. While the minor tends to sound bluesy, the major leans more towards country, but neither is exclusive to those genres.

Since the blues is the basis of the majority of pop music, it's a good place to start.

Do this daily, and you will find your ear and your hands will start to work together.

When you get to the point where you can play good solos over the blues, you are ready for the next step.

Also, get a book on basic music theory. Every musician should know at least elementary music theory. It will make what you are learning easier to apply to new situations.

Soloing is an art as well as a science. Anybody can buy the books and learn the appropriate scales, scale fragments, and arpeggios to play over any chord or chord progression. And there are tons of books out there.

The art part is to make moving solos instead of playing empty scales, scale fragments and arpeggios. As far as I'm concerned, nobody can teach the art. You can learn the devices that you use to express your own emotions, volume changes, choice of notes, timing, ornamentation (bends, hammer-on, etc.), and even silence, but the player decides when to use any or all of the devices at his/her disposal.

One of the best ways to learn the art part is by listening intensely. Don't treat it as background music, really listen, put your complete attention into the music (no multi-tasking), and listen until you know the piece well.

Listen to the greats, not only in your style of music, but across all genres of music as they will have something to show you. Listen to other instruments too. I learned as much about saxophone soloing from guitarists, organists, violinists and vocalists as I did from other saxophonists. And when I decided to play lead guitar, many of the skills that I learned on saxophone were easy to apply to the guitar (thanks to the elementary music theory).

That's my 2 cents anyway.

Insights and incites by Notes

Notes

Bob "Notes" Norton

Owner, Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com Add-on Styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft SongSmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

it's good to know a lot of licks, so that you can get a sound if you want it, and so you're more familiar with an idiom or style. i spend a lot more time trying to find unique things to play, or trying to play ideas or connecting ideas, as opposed to just sticking with the stock licks, although i do spend plenty of time on them.


   
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