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Merry Xmas to all and 1 Question as well

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(@minus_human)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 381
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Hello all, don't know about you guys but I've been on leave for last week and having a great time :D

quick question. I've been struggling with writing songs. my main problem at the moment is finding/writing a cool riff. i tend to get something going but I've never been someone 4 poppy sounding stuff so I'll can that stuff right away. The thing is, that's all I'm coming up with at the moment :?

So as a bit off a crutch I thought I would steal/borrow/change some riffs from songs i like as a starting point. BUT at which point am i crossing the line when doin this? if i take the rhythm but play diff notes is that OK. or am i just plain cheating ?

what advice is there for someone that comes up with stuff that I don't like but I can't seem to write the stuff I do like ?

Should I start listening to Richard Tauber and maybe I'll write my own master of puppets ?

BTW merry Xmas and have a great new year the best to all

Minus Human

And all the things you said to me
I need your arms to welcome me
But a cold stone's all I see

Let my heart go


   
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 Kyle
(@kyle)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 186
 

Hermmm. There are lots of articles written on this, but ill do my best to answer. The way I do it is I find a song I really dig, lets say, the face of my innocence by Arsis(really good metal-worshipdepraved.com- check it out). This song has a killer fast hammer on intro which I thought was sweet. So I asked myself why that riff was so cool. What did it for me was the legato while maintaining the driving agression of it. So, I kept that concept in mind when writing a riff that was inspired by that one. So I suggest find a song you like and say "Why is this riff cool?" and when you answer that question try writing a riff with those concepts in mind. Hope that helps

Kyle

The meaning of life? I've never heard a simpler question! Music.


   
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(@wes-inman)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

I think it is ok to use another song as a framework, as long as you don't outright copy another. The Beatles admitted to slightly altering popular songs to come up with many of their hits. They did not write Twist and Shout which was a huge hit for them, but have you ever really listened to that song? It is almost note for note a copy of Ritchie Valens La Bamba.

George Harrison was sued and lost for copying He's So Fine on his song My Sweet Lord. He said he did not intentionally know he was copying this hit and I believe him. But you've got to put something in there that clearly marks the song as your own work.

Man, if Blues players wanted to sue each other, there would never be an end to it. Hundreds of songs are basically the copy of another. Led Zeppelin was known to alter Blues classics.

It is almost impossible to come up with something completely unique. Just about everything has been done at one time or another. What is important is to write a song that does not remind you of another song.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@lee-n)
Estimable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 142
 

You obviously don't want it to sound too similar to what you have stolen but I wouldn't call it cheating, many great ideas can come from doing things like this.

Try a few different things and I bet you eventually come up with something you like that ends up quite different.
Gather a few of your favourite riffs, play them all from the same starting note, mix them up, use the rhythm (motif) from one apply to another, change a few notes, literally just fool around with them, you'll end up with ideas I'm sure.

After doing this try something a little different, choose one note and play around only with that one note, make a rhythm, pattern, motif or whatever you want to call it, gradually spread out from that note with another note etc. Play around with space as much as you do playing the notes remember silence is as much a part of rhythm as is sound.

These are just ideas, there's no trick or real method but I would guess most great riffs come from just messing around like this.

Lee


   
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(@matthew)
Trusted Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 55
 

It's simply Innovation. You take something old, and use it to make something new. Sadly, innovation isn't protected by the law, copyrights, however, are. It's same dilemma which inhibits our ability to make drugs for terminal illnesses and the quick building upon our current technologies. Remember, we're all supposed to be driving in hover cars now and living on the moon. We're going on 5 years late of that projection. But I'm getting off topic here…

Luckily, if you don't make money off your songs then they have nothing to sue you for. They can't stop you from playing it, just like they can't stop you from playing their song. The can only stop you from making money off it, or insist they get a cut of any money you have made. You can just tell them you'd be more than willing to give them 100% of your 0 profit. Just be careful, as they could claim that your popularity is partly due to THEIR song and claim some of your profits from OTHER works are because of that popularity and demand money from that. Kodak sued Sun Microsystems on a basis similar to that and won.

If you DO want to make money off it, then it's best to stay out of that gray area. But, unless the original author challenges it, then you're still in the clear. If the general folk are saying "Hey that's the part from [Insert Song Name]," then you're probably pushing your luck.

If you DO end up going to court, then it's going to be decided by a group of people and some "experts" and such. Their decision could be completely different from some other group of "experts". So no one can really tell you where the line is. The line is drawn AFTER you've done the deed. Make sense? No, but that's the law for you.

"Now people put you down for the way that you lived
But those people never knew you the way that I did
Don't be ashamed of who you were of how you died
I know you just wanted to find the brighter side..." - OPM

- Matthew


   
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(@omega)
Estimable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 92
 

Remember its a very big world. If you copy some, Black Sabbath riff, Black Sabbath have to have heard about it before anything happens. Then it comes to a case, where if its changed significantly, there is no case.

Unless you're under a massive label, getting lots of exposure for music you didn't write, then theres not much that can happen.

Somnium Dulcis.


   
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(@ricochet)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 7833
 

Man, if Blues players wanted to sue each other, there would never be an end to it. Hundreds of songs are basically the copy of another. Led Zeppelin was known to alter Blues classics. Blues was and is all about copying. There are just a few basic tunes repeated over and over, the lyrics are interchangeable and pulled at random out of a grab bag they'll work in any tune. And the old classic blues masters did this all the time. Nobody knows who really wrote a lot of the old standards.

I don't think it's necessarily important to avoid sounding reminiscent of another song. That's done all the time, too. And agents advertise all the time for people sounding like some one-hit wonder. Better not sound too directly like it if you want to avoid getting sued these days, though.

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@metaellihead)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 653
 

I find that if I play around with riffs I can write variations on them or make alterations. Just test things out a bunch and see what happens.

If you think about it; as far as riffs go there's only so many combonations of notes possible to play in a few measures. Now, that's going to be a LOT of riffs, but you're still bound to reproduce somthing that's been writen before. Especially if you're working in a specific genre, like blues for example.

And with copywright law being farked over by corporate America things aren't helped. Copywright was originally 20 years. This prevented other people from using what you write, and that gave the artist plenty of time to make money off their work. I mean, if you can't make money off a song in 20 years... But then corporations like Disney who are into protecting Mickey Mouse, ect had the copywright extended more and more. I think it's up to 70 years after the death of the artist/creator.

But of course they're more than willing to use public domain works like Alice In Wonderland and Pinocchio. Lord forbid their rat would get the same treatment.

-Metaellihead


   
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