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Most Efficient Way to Learn Scales

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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

all that ionian dorian myxolidian stuff is just the major scale starting on a different note.
so for instance c to c on the white notes of the piano is ionian or major.
d to d on the white notes would have a slightly different flavor and a different name. e to e, f to f etc...
it's a very simple concept on the piano, but more difficult on the guitar unless you're comfortable with at least one scale. i don't know all the names of them, but it's the same pattern, just emphasising a different root, and the different sound of the scale.
but if you wanted to play in g myxolidian, for instance, you'd use the notes of the c major scale with no sharps or flats, but you'd make g the root and you'd play chords and melody lines that would make g the tonal center.
myxolidian is one that i know. it's the major scale with a flat 7th. if it was in c, it would be c, d, e, f, g, a, b flat, c... but in g, it's g, a, b, c, d, e, f(instead of f#), g the same notes as the c major scale, but with g as the root and tonal center. so you'd have the same chords as c major: c f g major, a d e minor, and b diminished. you'd have to find a way to make g the home, though.

i hope that makes it easy to understand.


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

personally i enjoy playing in exotic scales, like the whole tone scale or arabic scales or other scales that have odd shapes and large jumps or bunches. since i don't really know a lot of music in these different scales, just a vague idea in the back of my head, i enjoy messing with them and trying to make music out of it. there's no real pressure there. when i'm playing something i know a lot about, there's always pressure to try to come up with something original or sound like someone or sound really good, which can cause frustration from time to time.

another method for learning scales i like is using a drone. just thumping the low e with my thumb and noodling around in e major, for instance, is pretty fun and it's easier to learn when you're having fun.

in any case, it's better to learn a bunch of different ways, imo. learning the notes of the scale is important, but learning them in a vaccuum is very dry. learning not only a note, but a bunch of different approaches to that note, ways to move away from the note, how it feels in the scale, how it's used and useful... all that stuff will make you more creative and interesting and able to enjoy your time practicing and playing.


   
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(@tommy-guns)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 314
 

I agree Jason. I use the scale patterns to build speed and knowledge (right notes to play)...the overall objective is to make "music." No one wants to hear anyone play scales up and down the neck during a solo. That would be as boring (dry) as it sounds. Now if I listen to Pink Floyd some of their stuff is outside of the box (chords outside of the key etc)...which makes it interesting to listen too. I guess thats why they classified it "progressive rock" back in the day. Now I guess its classic rock. Either way its cool.

I like Eddie Van Halen's quote. "If it sounds good...it is good." No better explanation than that. I would rather hear notes played with "feel" rather than someone up there shredding all night.

Ambition is the path to success...persistence is the vehicle you arrive in!!!


   
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(@spides)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 157
 

IMO the best way to "truly" learn scales, to the point where you can comfortably and artistically play over anything without your head holding you back from expressing yourself, Is a two tiered assault on them.

On the guitar, learn how to play the notes instead of strings and frets. when you can play an "E" instead of a "9th fret g string" you're ready. And by that i don't mean playing that fret and figuring out that its an E, in your mind you have to call it an e, so that E happens before 9th fret g string.

On paper, learn the theory behind as many or few scales as you want. Eventually you are going to get bored with one or two, and you'll want to extend your arsenal. When you know how scales are constructed on paper, you should, realistically be able to play them on an instrument, provided you know what notes you are hitting.

most instruments know when they're playing an E,F,G whatever. That's what they call it from the start. Guitarists tend to fall into the trap of taking shortcuts and referring to things based on patterns, shapes and visual things. If you master your fretboard, you will be able to play any scale in existence accurately and consistently, provided you know it's composition. and you can then also do more things with it, and be more creative and expressive as you are not limited to shapes.

I often practice improvising in different scales/modes on the keyboard(and not just on the white keys, you gotta push yourself to see them as notes, not patterns) as it is a great, easy way to make yourself aware of what notes go into what scales. Then you can more easily do the same on the guitar.

This is, IMHO, the most effective and beneficial way to learn scales. That said, everybody is different, but i learned all the wrong ways first, before i figured this out, and spent ten times as long unlearning all my dumb shortcuts and relearning the right way. I am still trying to relearn, I think i am about 50-60% of the way to learning my fretboard properly.

Anyway, good luck.

Don't sweat it dude, just play!


   
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(@chris-c)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Hi,

Perhaps the most efficient way is to first decide which ones you want, or are likely to need to play (most scales you'll never use) and where on the neck you most like playing? Watch somebody like BB King at work and you'll probably see a pretty small range being used but he's very focused and highly skilled within that range. Start in one spot, with something that means the most to you, and work outwards from there.

I also like to focus on what actually matters to me – and that is, and always will be, the noises at the end. Not the note names, not what they look like on a score, not any patterns or boxes, but the noises themselves. I look on the rest of the stuff as just a variety of tools that can help get me to the sounds. This is not just an excuse for laziness. I can, and do, read music on a daily basis. I really don't mind if it takes me a few minutes to work through a score, or some kind of scale diagram to find out what the ‘team for today is', but once I have a feel for where the relevant sounds are I don't need to know what the names are or have any intermediate information – like visual patterns – cluttering up my head. It's rather like watching a rocket blast off, once the lift-off power start to cut in, all the gantry arms and tubes drop away, and it's free flight from then on. That's the feeling I'm after. If all I could do was follow a score or pattern I'd think that I was no better than a pianola that happened to be made of meat and bones….

I'm probably not explaining it all that well, but perhaps what I'm really trying to say is that I like to think in 'intervals' rather than note names or boxes. Intervals are the spaces between the notes, and are what creates the effects, depending on where the music is going. For me, it's more natural to think in intervals. If somebody starts singing Happy Birthday at a kids' party they can start on any note, and be about to sing in any key. Yet pretty much everybody - music trained or not - is able to join in. A feat of instantaneous transposition that is only possible because thinking in intervals is more natural to us than turning the whole thing into maths, geometry or English. If we can do that with no knowledge of scales, keys, note names, musical theory, or notation of any kind, then maybe it's best to exploit that in some way when we learn an instrument? I think so anyway, and so when I practice it's by improvising my way around the scales until I have formed links between the way it sounds in my head and feels in my fingers. Where those intervals are. The names are only for when I'm not actually playing.

Cheers,

Chris


   
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(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2171
 

Both Chris and Spides make great points.

I think something that many other instrumentalists do that guitarists don't, which really helps in learning scales, interval relationships and a bit of theory, is to learn another instrument (not sure why it is, but I know of few sax players who don't also play the guitar or piano at least a little bit). The piano is one ideal choice here, as the notes are all layed out in a nice little row for you. Horns are another, for the opposite reason: nothing is layed out in a nice row, and you have to learn each note and scale as an individual entity. But really any non-fretboard based instrument will make you think about this stuff differently -- and you'll take that new perspective back to the guitar where it will help you see things you couldn't have seen otherwise without a lot more work.

I'm not saying you become a concert pianist or the next Miles Davis. I'm suggesting you spend enough time to be fluent. Yeah, it'll take a few years, but slow and steady wins the race when it comes to art. There are no short-cuts to mastery.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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(@rich_halford)
Reputable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 225
 

I can't add anything of value to the debate but I just wanted to thank all the contributors for this interesting and insightful read. So, thanks.


   
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