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Mr. Crowley

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dsparling
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I personally don't really get the "guitar hero' thing.

Look at Steve Vai. Lots of people talk about what a great player he is, but most of the stuff I have heard from him blows. It may be hard to play, but it doesn't sound all that great, at least to me.

I think Vai is brilliant, but I have to agree, I don't really get it and I don't like listening to it. A friend of mine had me watch part of a G3 DVD (I'm not sure which one, and I'm not sure that it really matters). After about 30 seconds, I had to run from the room.
Steve Vai did play on the first PIL record, I am told, and I dig that, but otherwise I just don't get it. I don't get Yngwie either. Or Satriani. SRV is ok, but I don't own any of his musci and probably won't.

I get more joy out of a Ramones tune than any of the legends' stuff.

Amen!

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Steve-0
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Dont get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with this style of playing, but i think if you think of guitar playing as SOLELY based on people like Vai, Malmsteen, Satch, Rhodes, Wylde...any speed demon...then your perception of what guitar playing is is skewed. I tihnk a person who makes music using only a D and G chord, and making it work, to be more impressive than a person who uses just physical skill. With enouogh practice i think anyone can be a Michael Angelo. Or a Randy Rhodes. But you sure as hell can't be Jimi Hendrix no matter how much you practice.

2 chord rock is all fine and well, but who's to say you can't combine both technique and songwriting? And I do personally believe that if you are the creative type and really have a strong desire to play and write, you can learn to become a great songwriter, the key is if you have that desire and ability: Not every person has the mental stability to practice technique 10 hours a day, 7 days a week (after all, some of us have work and school :D ), I've also met people who'd rather play other people's songs and solos instead of writing their own. Who cares? In reality, it's probably beneficial for most guitar players to know at least a bit of technique (even strumming chords requires some technical proficiency), a couple of songs and some improvisation techniques: but what you want to do personally is what determines what to focus on.

Anywho, what I'm trying to get at is that I really don't think that Hendrix was just born this amazing, virtuostic player and songwriter, it takes alot of work whether it's technique, songwriting or even theory.

Steve-0


   
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Moai
 Moai
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I went to see Steve Vai play in October actually. He still fills all seats.
Have a listen to Tender Surrender for something more melodic, and Juice is a cool hyper boogie type song. In fact the whole Alien Love Secrets album is really great cos its almost completely rythem based. Something which the likes of Satch, Becker etc arent so good at!

How was the show? If you had a blast, that's what it's all about. I have noticed that based on artists mentioned on these boards I listen to bands few if anybody here have ever heard of--not that it means anything.

I had no idea he was touring or anything. Of course, I never listen to the radio and I don't know anyone who listens to his stuff.

Anybody here besides me like the way Johnny Marr plays? "What Difference Does It Make" rules. I can listen to it forever, even with Morrissey whining over it like he does.

Bettie Page is the most beautiful woman who ever lived. You better recognize, G!


   
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simon@home.co.uk
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How was the show? If you had a blast, that's what it's all about. I have noticed that based on artists mentioned on these boards I listen to bands few if anybody here have ever heard of--not that it means anything.

I had no idea he was touring or anything
.

Was pretty amazing. Its weird when your sitting there looking down (from where I was sitting at least) and you think "wow that man down playing that Vai signiture guitar...That is actually Steve Vai! Im in a hall... watching Steve ***ing Vai play!!!"
The icing on the cake was when he played For the Love of God at the end. But it was the song"I'm the hell outta here" which I couldnt stop damn well humming on the journey home. lol
He's only touring in Europe at the moment, I saw him in London.


   
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U2Bono269
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i never said you can't blend both technique and songwriting. it just seems to me that people who focus on technique technique technique don't have the greatest songwriting skills. I think Vai's an exception...he's a great writer, i just dont like the style. I often feel like when I hear these things that whoever is playing it is trying to wow me with his skill. I don't get wowed by someone with that much skill. I get wowed by the people who can make memorable music regardless of their ability. Paul McCartney isn't a great technical player. He can't fingerpick with more than 2 fingers. But "Jenny Wren" is a freakin fantastic song. So if we take Paul McCartney and, for the sake of argument, put him up against someone like Michael Angelo or whoever. Who's to say who's better? One guy's got the better physical skill, whereas McCartney's got the better musical skill.

This is where I think there's a difference between "guitarist" and "musician." Randy Rhodes played guitar, but Paul McCartney is a musician. And I want to listen to music, not a guy playing guitar. I can hear that anytime i pick up one of my own guitars. I just think musically, Randy Rhodes or Michael Angelo are pretty much short of the full-package.

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Steve-0
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This is where I think there's a difference between "guitarist" and "musician." Randy Rhodes played guitar, but Paul McCartney is a musician. And I want to listen to music, not a guy playing guitar. I can hear that anytime i pick up one of my own guitars. I just think musically, Randy Rhodes or Michael Angelo are pretty much short of the full-package.

I'll agree that Paul McCartney is talented and a great musician, but I wouldn't call randy rhodes just a guy playing the guitar, whenever i listen to "Dee" or "Revelation Mother Earth" it always reminds me of how good of a musician randy really was, it's very musical and genius really (even without the solos). At the same time though, one of my favorite songs is "Life by the drop" by SRV, and it's pretty much one of the most basic blues songs i've ever heard. So I think songwriting is definitely more important then technique.

Steve-0


   
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simon@home.co.uk
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This is where I think there's a difference between "guitarist" and "musician." Randy Rhodes played guitar, but Paul McCartney is a musician. And I want to listen to music, not a guy playing guitar. I can hear that anytime i pick up one of my own guitars. I just think musically, Randy Rhodes or Michael Angelo are pretty much short of the full-package.

I'll agree that Paul McCartney is talented and a great musician, but I wouldn't call randy rhodes just a guy playing the guitar, whenever i listen to "Dee" or "Revelation Mother Earth" it always reminds me of how good of a musician randy really was, it's very musical and genius really (even without the solos). At the same time though, one of my favorite songs is "Life by the drop" by SRV, and it's pretty much one of the most basic blues songs i've ever heard. So I think songwriting is definitely more important then technique.

Yeah I think Rhoades is a perfect (maybe the best?) example of how u can have amazing technical guitar playing put to ingenious musical use, rather than just one or the other.


   
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Moai
 Moai
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I have never even heard of Michael Angelo. Sounds like he is really fast, though.

Bettie Page is the most beautiful woman who ever lived. You better recognize, G!


   
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Steve-0
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I have never even heard of Michael Angelo. Sounds like he is really fast, though.

I've seen a video of Michael Angelo playing a split double neck guitar (at least thats what I call it: it's pretty much a neck for each hand, it's really hard to explain what it's like but i'm pretty sure a link to the video was posted on this site), and it was quite incredible, i've never seen him actually play anything in a musical context so I can't say. Speaking as a guitarist, I always want to try to get to the next level of playing, so I give all those type of players credit, but as a musician I give credit to the other side of playing too (songwriting, improvisation, etc.): The White Stripes and The Beatles come to mind. Anyways, I'm not going to try to be redundant because that would be pointless.

Steve-0


   
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antny
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i find it interesting how many bedroom shredders rag on jimi and praise the speedsters. i dare anyone to find a clip of steve vai, satriani, yngwie, etc disregarding the power of jimi's music. all these guys cite jimi as a huge influence. satriani commonly refers to machine gun as the holy grail of guitar playing. if you only here noise in jimi's star spangled banner then you should really try listening it again maybe with a different frame of mind. jimi's version is ugly and painful and almost scary. i saw it played agianst the backdrop of nuclear bombs on some tv show and u know what...it was perfect. nothing else conveyed the horror of those images better, and that is why jimi is jimi.

those shredders are great too. i don't get moved by their playing though. when i listen to them however that is not really what i am listening for anyway. take everything in context and you will find a lot of things you never noticed before. really if these guys can be blown away then why not you? the whole jimi being marketed thing doesn't hold water with me anyway. there still has to be substance or else it would not have lasted the test of time. britney and nsync are the product of marketing but they won't be much 20 years for now, listeners and musicians alike will carry jimi around forever.


   
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antny
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by the way michaelangelo was soooo much better than van gough. i mean when michaelangelo painted it looked like a real image. van gough just used a bunch of squaggly lines arghh. i mean u call that painting.


   
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antny
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van gogh


   
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U2Bono269
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what i take issue to in the original post is the implication that physical perfection trumps all else when it comes to playing guitar. MetallicaMan is basically saying that Hendrix's music isn't nearly as good as Rhodes' because he's not as perfect and can't hit the notes as "cleanly" and doesn't make his fingers fly all over the place. Perfection doesn't make anything better, imo. It's nice and dandy, but don't discount the music that's not perfect. After all, that tower in Pisa would be kinda boring if it were perfect.

I guess what it comes down to is I don't like the "holier than thou" attitude that I perceive some metal shredders to have as a result of their technical prowess. It's mainly for this reason that I can't stand Yngwie Malmsteen or Eddie Van Halen. And I still stick to my guns when I say that physical ability doesn't automatically equal good music.

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paul donnelly
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MetallicaMan is basically saying that Hendrix's music isn't nearly as good as Rhodes' because he's not as perfect and can't hit the notes as "cleanly" and doesn't make his fingers fly all over the place. Perfection doesn't make anything better, imo. It's nice and dandy, but don't discount the music that's not perfect.
Sometimes you just want to bang on your guitar. I sure can pick notes cleanly, but a lot of the time I mute and hit several strings at once, just because I want to.


   
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simon@home.co.uk
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i find it interesting how many bedroom shredders rag on jimi and praise the speedsters. i dare anyone to find a clip of steve vai, satriani, yngwie, etc disregarding the power of jimi's music. all these guys cite jimi as a huge influence. satriani commonly refers to machine gun as the holy grail of guitar playing. if you only here noise in jimi's star spangled banner then you should really try listening it again maybe with a different frame of mind. jimi's version is ugly and painful and almost scary. i saw it played agianst the backdrop of nuclear bombs on some tv show and u know what...it was perfect. nothing else conveyed the horror of those images better, and that is why jimi is jimi.

For the record I'm not one of those people. :lol: I think Hendrix was amazing, the best, even though shredding is one of my more used tools.


   
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