Need help setting up 12-sring acoustic

I am by no means an expert on 12 strings so I could be way off base here but it seems to me that you would need to tune it down then put the capo on the 2nd. This in effect is bringing it back up to standard tuning. If you tune down after the capo is on you will have a fair amount less tension which may be causing the buzzing.

If you tune it after the capo is on I think you need to tune it standard.

The reason that you want the capo on is because of the intense pressure on the neck in 12-string guitars.. However I've had my 12 string for just over a year and a half now and I don't tune it down. If I ever get around to buying a capo then yes, maybe I will but I havent had any problems with it.

I could have explained that better....I'll try again...I tuned it down to D G C F A D, then put the capo on the 2nd fret, which was when I found out the action was horrendously low.....

Anyway, I've sorted it out now....left the capo on, raised the action till there was no buzzing, took capo off, retuned, put capo back on...checked tuning....retuned slightly, with capo off, put capo back on....etc...etc....

Took me about 3 hours in all, there must be an easier way!!!!

Vic

Why on earth would you tune down and put a capo on that's rediculous! Play it in standard. Iv'e never heard of anybody tuning down and playing with a capo. Perhaps I'm wrong but wouldn't manufactures compensate for tension?

When I bought the guitar, I asked for advice on tuning....about 90% of the replies advocated tuning down a whole step and putting a capo on the 2nd, to relieve the tension on the neck....

Vic

ps here's the link....

http://forums.guitarnoise.com/viewtopic.php?t=13349

Still seems crazy you'll wear out that second fret faster. Guess I'll invent a 12 that you can keep in standard tuning and I'll be rich! 8) 8) 8) Hmm where'd I put that drawing board?

I read somewhere that 12-strings are more or less a new invention - like in the 30s or 40s and then they died out and came back during the Folk era. And I think that's where the downtuning started: the earlier 12 strings were probably made and braced like a regular guitar and they must've had problems with the neck bowing because of the extra tension. Plus, if you tink about it, the extra-light strings that are available now, weren't then - like .010s, .009s, .011s. They were probably using .012s-.014s as the first strings way back then. That's a lot of extra tension.

So I guess that's where people started tuning the things down a whole step and using a capo. There's this Stella reissue or remake I saw in an Elderly catalog (modeled after Leadbelly's 12) and it says specifically that it has to be downtuned and you have to get special low tension sets to use on it. That makes me believe that the earlier models weren't braced well enough and that the strings were really thick.

Oh, plus the fact that the Stella has a 12-fret-join neck - meaning it's maybe a slightly shorter scale length - like 24" or so.

The modern era 12s are just about ALL 14-fret-join necks and the longer scale length (like standard flat tops), and that would also cause the tension to be higher. This probably also caused the downtune idea to flourish - at least before Ernie Ball came along in the 60s.

However, the 12-strings you find today are *supposed* to be braced well enough to support tuning them to concert pitch. If I remember, I think the early ads for Ovation 12-strings said something about "yes, now you can tune to pitch without worry" because of the U channel truss rod or something. But modern 12s are supposed to be able to do it.

It's just that everybody's always 'heard' you're supposed to tune them down and even though it's most likely not needed anymore, it's like a myth that hasn't died.

Me? I tune mine down, even though I know I could tune it up. It's almost a tradition with me - even though I use .010-.047 (extra light) sets. It's like I've gotten used to having the capo on there and having the fret markers totally 'off-by-two', and I have to say it's really silly for me to keep doing it that way.

Still, I do though.

I DO wish that someone would start making (affordable) 12-fret-join 12-strings though - like a 'parlor' 12 similar to the Stella. Or something the size and shape of a classical guitar, but 12-string steel.

But now that's getting into my beef about "Where are the cheap, left-handed Parlor Guitars?" hehehehe.

Well this isn't by any means a top make...Avalanche....cost about 135 pounds....

And it came strung with 9's (at least they feel like 9's...) so I reckon I should be safe in standard E A D G B E....which means lowering the action again - beginning to think this guitar is more trouble than it was worth....!!!

Vic

Oh, but the sound! Nothing like a 12-string!!!

I have a 12 string acoustic and use the extra light strings 10's and it has been fine for me, I was told the 12's put alot of tension on the neck and that is why people started down tuning, stay with extra lights and you should be fine.

:D

Hi Vic

You have received some good info on this thread. I think that the reason you hear the tuning-down advice is because everyone else has heard it from someone else and likes to offer it as sage advice. It doesn't make it an absolute law, just common knowledge even if it is not common practice.

My own suggestion, based on my experience with 12-string guitars is just play them until you are comfortable with them. If it is that uncomfortable to play, there may be something wrong with the guitar itself. Naturally, 12 strings are harder to hold down than 6, especially doing barre chords. There is certainly nothing wrong with building strength into your fingers for playing the guitar. If you are going to play the 12 often enough, it might be worth getting the best one you can afford as the cheaper ones may not allow a low enough action to make it comfortable.