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Playing lead (or fills): thumb behind or over the neck?

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(@corbind)
Noble Member
Joined: 22 years ago
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Topic starter  

My wrist has been hurting for about a week now and it got to a point two nights ago I decided I wouldn't play any chords. So I played only single notes and it was better on my wrist. Still, I kept catching my thumb hopping up and grabbing around the neck. It's more comfortable for me but it severely limits my reach.

So how do you play rhythm: thumb over neck (less reach) or thumb behind the neck (greater reach)? The last two nights that's about all I've been doing and I don't want to get into a bad habit. I've been trying to keep my thumb on the back as much as I can but that left thumb seems to do whatever it wants to do...

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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Dennis,

Not sure if there's a right way per se, but I've been taking lessons with a new teachere and he has been pretty adamant about getting my thumb behind the neck and the fingers curled so they hit the strings only on the tips...this is mostly for lead/solo playing. He tells me that if I keep my thumb around the neck that it will eventually slow you down.

It's tough though to keep that thumb back there, at this point it's a little like starting over to try and stop that habit.

It's obviously less important when your playing rhythm and just strumming chords.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@lunchmeat)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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Your wrist is probably hurting because of the way you're holding the guitar. If you use classical position (prop your left foot up on something and keep the guitar on that leg) it'll be easier to maintain a low thumb position. Wrapping around the neck is essential for some styles of guitar; if you must, learn to switch between the two. I primarily use cliassical guitar position; I never wrap my thumb around the neck. I'll come really close but as a general rule, the insides of my knuckles don't touch the guitar neck.

Use a strap is you have one, that'll make it easier. Good luck!

-lunchmeat


   
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(@dl0571)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 240
 

For me, it's all about feel. I know it's "proper" to keep your thumb on the back but I do whatever is comfortable for me with whatever I'm playing. It all depends on the required speed, strings, place on the neck and stretch. Do what works best for what you're playing.

"How could you possibly be scared of being bad? Once you get past that, it's all beautiful." -Trey Anastasio


   
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(@pvtele)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 477
 

This is an interesting picture - Gilmour's thumb is securely hooked up over the neck, not pulled onto the centre, but look at his fingers - the tips at near enough 90 degrees to the fretboard. It's always instructive to watch people you admire on video: there's as great a range of techniques as there is of sounds... and I for one find my hand position changes from guitar to guitar. Even my modern Tele, with its thin, C-section neck, brings my hand into a different position than my old Strat, with its much thicker, U-section neck.


   
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(@pkrider)
Trusted Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 59
 

technique is about effiency IMHO. If your wrist is killing you, no matter how "proper" one method might be over the other, a sore wrist is NOT efficient! I've actually worn a groove on the back of my Martin over years of grinding my thumb into the back of the neck. However, I'm a big believer that whatever technique is most comfortable and affords easy/fast/smooth transitions is the PROPER technique for you. There is a truth of "no pain no gain", but only to a point. You should always be experimenting with new/better/more efficient techniques.

PK


   
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(@corbind)
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Joined: 22 years ago
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Topic starter  

Well, I have the guitar neck up at a 45 degree angle and the guitar's not low like some players. I always play standing and with a strap. One bad thing is I play with the neck out in front of my body a bit so it's a little sideways. I had a pic of me on my avatar but it disappeared a bit ago.

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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(@coloradofenderbender)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1106
 

Just a guess, but from the picture above, it looks like Gimour is bending a note. My thumb always slips over the side of the neck during a bend - it gives my hand more leverage. But, I also always have my thumb hooked during open chords and at other times as well. I learned the habit years ago and it is more comfortable for me.


   
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(@guitar4k)
Eminent Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 24
 

My guitar teacher always emphasized the thumb placement behind the neck, which I maintained for years. However, I have really big hands and long fingers, so I tend to use my thumb to help hold root notes (or low notes for inversions) of some wacky chords. But in the end, I alway move my thumb back behind the neck durning leads for more agility. Sometimes, I let my thumb off the neck completely due to habits formed learning the chapman stick (your thumb is always in front of the neck on the stick).


   
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(@simonhome-co-uk)
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I used to have the thumb always behind the neck untill i started getting carpel tunnel and tendon problems. Now I have it higher, usually very near the top, not often right over. I honestly dont notice any difference in my technical abililty - and I shred a lot! When you play with the thumb higher it simply comes back down instictivly when u need to stretch...so its not a problem.


   
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(@flashback)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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Mine jumps all over the place. For rhythm I keep my thumb hooked for hendrix / clapton like chords. For fills I usually keep it hooked till about the 12 freat then I plant on the back of the neck. With my thumb on top of the neck or clamped over I usually get a very nice shallow and fast vibrato (think Zakk Wylde when he pinchs harmonics) and also a Nice WIDE vibrato ala Hendrix. Its really on what your hands are comfortable doing. I have abnormally large hands (and sausage fingers it feels sometimes...). So its all on you. If your hand or wrist is hurting your body is telling you TO STOP and fix it. So find out exactly what is bothering your hand. Maybe play in the classical position for a week to see if it gets better. Also dont be afraid to raise that strap a little bit, sure its cool to have a low slung axe. But if your raise it, your hands will forgive. Heck I think Tom Morello said he hit himself in the chin one time with the guitar cause it was so high!

Hope I helped!

GN's resident learning sponge, show me a little and I will soak it up.


   
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(@anonymous)
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it goes wherever it's comfortable or necessary. i don't think about it much.


   
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(@corbind)
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Joined: 22 years ago
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Topic starter  

Well, tried my third night of trying some lead work. My wrist hardly hurts when just holding down single strings. My thumb wants to do the baseball bat grip and (when I see it pop up) I have to force it down to the back of the neck.

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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(@mattypretends116)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 530
 

For rhythm, I usually keep the thumb behind, since if you switch to a barre chord from an open chord, you have to change anyway, so why not just keep it there? It's usually a better way overall, but there are execptions to every rule. Like for SRV type stuff, I keep the thumb on top of the neck; not hooked over, but not quite behind it either.

If you are experiencing pain, stop! I screwed my wrist up for a while, its no fun. took a long time to heal, too

Yeah, for fast lead stuff, thumb over the neck is not the way to go. Try to do a three note/string major scale shape rooted with the index finger using your index, middle and pinky fingers.

So, in the key of A, starting on 5th fret 6th string play A - B- C# with fingers 1,2 and 4

:D

You pretty much need to use the thumb-behind the neck position. For that stuff, anyway. Blues and wide vibrato are a whole other deal, thumb over the neck will give you more leverage. You can always do a finger vibrato, like classical guitarists do, where the thumb remains behind the neck, but for bending (especially slow bending) I find thumb over is usually better

My 2c

"Contrary to popular belief, Clapton is NOT God. The prospect that he is God probably had a large hand in driving him to drugs and booze. Thanks everyone."

-Guitar World :lol:


   
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(@simonhome-co-uk)
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If the wrist gets worse you really should get it checked for carpel tunnel syndrone in fact


   
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