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Reading music.

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(@kevin72790)
Prominent Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 837
Topic starter  

Alright. I can read all music for frets 1-4ish on each string. I understand flats, sharps.

But....

I've noticed sometimes they have a sharp sign next to the clef, and I realize this means you move the note up. But to where? I was in the store today, and to try to figure it out, I looked at some music. It was all so inconsistent, it confused the hell out of me.

So, my question is this- how the hell am I supposed play, lets say a note on the 8th fret of the G string? I can't tell by reading music. I don't wanna continue falling into tablature hell. I can't figure out how to "move up" the fretboard, I guess. I mean I'm pretty good at playing single notes everywhere, but I wanna be able to read music efficiently.

Thanks.


   
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(@pearlthekat)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1468
 

i'm not sure if this is the right answer to your question or not but i what you have to know is the notes on the fretboard, too. there's a lot of ways to play anything (although i can usually only play one way). if you know the notes you're reading and the notes on the fretboard you'll be able to figure it out.


   
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(@voidious)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 151
 

Been a while since my Intro to Music Theory class, but I think this is right... if you have a sharp on a line at the beginning of the piece of music, it means to sharp that note every time. Then there's another symbol I think to "unsharp" it, and the flat symbol is as normal.

So for, say, the key of F major, you would "flat" the B note at the beginning (next to the clef) and then you don't need sharps or flats written anywhere else to write the notes in that key. People who really know to read music well (read: not me) have these key signatures memorized.

Not sure about your last question - 8th fret on G string is definitely an Eb or D#. I think 1st fret of B string would be "middle C", which is found between the treble and bass clefs, but don't quote me on any of that. :?

Hope that some of that info is helpful...

-- Voidious


   
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(@voidious)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 151
 

Oh, maybe I do understand your question - are you asking how music notation would specify 8th fret on G string? The simple answer is: it doesn't. It just specifies that note and you can play it however you want, and on any instrument.

-- Voidious


   
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 Taso
(@taso)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2811
 

The way i'd do it kev is to figure out what posistion allows me to play most of the notes comfortably.

the 8th fret on the G string is the 4th on the B string, which is an Eb. If it's easier to play everything around the first four frets, i'd stick to that region, if its better to move up on the neck, that's what I'd do.

Unlike the piano, the guitar is much more complex when it comes to finding notes on the neck. The piano, you memorize 7 keys and you've basically got it :P

http://taso.dmusic.com/music/


   
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(@wylesmyde)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 103
 

I've noticed sometimes they have a sharp sign next to the clef, and I realize this means you move the note up. But to where?

Kev, If I could add one more "note" (I couldn't resist :lol: ). The sharp '#' is indicating you play the note one half step higher (or one fret higher) all through the score. As Voidious mentioned, there is a 'natural' symbol that cancels out the sharp. It looks sort of like a sharp symbol '#' that has been pulled apart so it forms something more like a square.

I suggest that you stick to "simplified" music if you are just starting to read it. Most guitar stores carry books of the like.


   
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(@chris-c)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

.

So, my question is this- how the hell am I supposed play, lets say a note on the 8th fret of the G string? I can't tell by reading music. I don't wanna continue falling into tablature hell. I can't figure out how to "move up" the fretboard, I guess. I mean I'm pretty good at playing single notes everywhere, but I wanna be able to read music efficiently.

I think that Voidious has probably already nailed the difficulty that's at the heart of your question.

The fact is that exactly the same written note on the musical staff can be found in several different places on the neck. So you have a choice about where to play it. This is both and advantage and a disadvantage. It's more flexible in one way, but it means you have another decision to make.

It all looks very complicated at the start, but usually it boils down to deciding which 'position' or part of the neck you're mostly going to play on for that song.

If you're looking for an F# for instance you can alway find them next to the F. And as you earn the neck you'll find that they always have other notes close by in a consistent pattern. The pattern steps slightly at the G/B strings but if you can find an F then you can find an F# next door, a C close by on the next lower string, and A# on the next higher string, and so on. There's a logical pattern, it just takes a while to learn.

Each note (A, B, C# or whatever) occurs a dozen or so times on the neck. Some are an octave or more apart (the guitar covers somewhere between 3 and 4 octaves) but many of them are actually repeats - the same note on a different string. These repeats are musically notated the same, but because of the string thickness and length the tone can be a little different. This can be used to good effect. :)

Good luck..

Chris


   
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(@chris-c)
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more..

I don't have time to look now, I'm running late. But check Greybeard's sig here. I'm pretty sure that he has some good printable charts that you can download from his site that show all the positions on the neck - notes as named and as written on the staff.

Chris


   
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(@kevin72790)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 837
Topic starter  

Thanks everyone.

Interesting.

So with guitar, typically, it seems as if it may be harder to learn the song, than say, of someone of equal talent on piano. That's because, like one of you said, you have a choice with some notes.

I did know that there was the same notes on the guitar. Just seems quite confusing at times. I mean, if you want to get specific, I could play the whole damn song an octave up, from the 12th fret and on.

Thanks, I do understand now. I guess I'll have to do the following...

-Continue to remember the notes on the fretboard
-Remember the notes on the staff, or whatever you may call it.

Meh. I got a ways to go.

Thanks again. :)


   
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(@robbie)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 453
 

This is what I think you are getting at but are confusing what the sharp siign means in this instance. The sharps beside the clef actually tell you what key the song is in and has no bearing on where the note is to be played on the fretboard. For ex. if there is one sharp noted that indicates that the piece is in the key of G as that Key has one sharp. The sharp notation will be on the F line of the staff as that is the F# in the key of G. If there are 2 sharps the key of the tune is D, if there are three sharps key of A and 4 sharps key of E. These sharp notations will be on the staff lines of the relevant notes. These are figured out in major scales by using the WWHWWWH configuation. Therefore back to the key of G we have the notes G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G......Now I would really appreciate someone that knows what they are talking about to weigh in, I am now cornered :)
Robbie


   
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(@steve-0)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1162
 

This is what I think you are getting at but are confusing what the sharp siign means in this instance. The sharps beside the clef actually tell you what key the song is in and has no bearing on where the note is to be played on the fretboard. For ex. if there is one sharp noted that indicates that the piece is in the key of G as that Key has one sharp. The sharp notation will be on the F line of the staff as that is the F# in the key of G. If there are 2 sharps the key of the tune is D, if there are three sharps key of A and 4 sharps key of E. These sharp notations will be on the staff lines of the relevant notes. These are figured out in major scales by using the WWHWWWH configuation. Therefore back to the key of G we have the notes G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G......Now I would really appreciate someone that knows what they are talking about to weigh in, I am now cornered :)
Robbie

You're right, sharps or flats right after the clef is the key signature which tells you which key the song is in. That is why naturals are used in music, say for example you play a G blues song that was notated in G major: you might notice that a couple of notes are G natural, which would be the flatted 7th (a common blues note). Generally the key and notes dictate where you play on the fretboard. For example, if you play an E, A, Dm chord, it would make sense to play in open position (open - 4th fret), however if you wanted to play something like Db, Cb, Gb, open position would be quite tough. Of course, there are exceptions to this and that is why generally it takes a lot of practice to read music, even more to sight read.

Steve-0


   
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(@fretsource)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 973
 

Steve - I think you meant to say F natural, (the flatted 7th) not G natural.

Incidentally, key signatures don't actually specify the key.

I mean, if we know the key, we can say exactly what the key signature must be. But if we know only the key signature, we can't automatically know the key without a little further investigation. The key of E minor, for example, like G major, also has a sharp on the top F line.


   
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(@globetro)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 75
 

I don't wanna continue falling into tablature hell.

I don't think it's bad to use tabs, as long as they also specify the timing (either by showing the music notation right above it, or specified in the tab itself).

IMHO, tabs just seem like a much better mechanism for writing guitar music. I'm sure learning to read music has its benefits, but quite honestly, there just doesn't seem to be enough good reasons to spend time learning it when there's soooo many other aspects of guitar to learn.


   
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(@robbie)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 453
 

Thanx for that fretsource, so the example you have given is Em and G, so then the relative minor of a key has the same key signature as the major? So I assume then that Am being the relative of C has the same signature? Just exposing exactly how much I don't know yet!!and not trying to hijack Kevins thread.
Robbie


   
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(@ldavis04)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 228
 

Thanx for that fretsource, so the example you have given is Em and G, so then the relative minor of a key has the same key signature as the major? So I assume then that Am being the relative of C has the same signature? Just exposing exactly how much I don't know yet!!and not trying to hijack Kevins thread.
Robbie

The major and the relative minor have the same notes, so yes, they will have the same key signature. Don't forget, even with a # (one sharp, key of G or Em respectively), there may be other accidentals in the notation that will instruct you to alter other notes in the key.

I may grow old, but I'll never grow up.


   
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