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Unheard rhythms

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(@simonhome-co-uk)
Prominent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 677
Topic starter  

Ok so what I'm stuggling with atm is improvising a solo over a rhythm section I've never heard before. I say "rhythm section" because I'm not necessarily talking about a generic chord progression with any thought-out theory behind it, or a rock riffmetal where the key is obvious.
In my band the other guitarist might throw out a rhythm and say "what do you think of this?"..."Can you put some soloing over this? See how it sounds".
Half the time I'll be ok, but sometimes it takes ages to work out the key and particularly what scales sound good, which modes I can use, what kind of phrasing I should use. By which time I've hit a lot of wrong notes and come out with some weak, hestitant, awkward sounding phrasing. I find I'm particuarly thrown when theres just 2 chords involved, equal time is given to both and it when it wont sound good if I keep alternating key...Arrghh!
It makes me hate people like Marty Friedman and Guthrie Govan...I wanna steal their brains! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Any tips, advice etc would be appreciated!


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

the simplest answer is to start with chord tones. play those and then figure out ways to connect them that sound cool.

it can help to know enough theory to be able to figure out what key it's in. for instance, if you have F and G chords, you might be tempted to play in one of those keys, but neither is in the key of the other one. They're both in C, though, so you'd want to play in C. Am is the relative minor (means uses the same notes) of C, so you could also play in Am or Am pentatonic.

the other option is just practice playing by ear to the point that it happens without analytical thought, and more like just figuring out which hole to put the peg in, or (if you're into puns) which key to put in the lock. you might fumble around for a second, but pretty soon the door is open and you're free to move around. it really is like that. it's a cool sensation. one second, you're searching around in a dark fog. the next, something clicks and everything is laid out in front of you. you can practice that with your rhythm guitar player if he's the patient type, or you can just jam along to records and the tv and your own voice and whatever else.

or you can forget keys altogether and just play what sounds good. that can take the most patience and can cause the most mistakes, but you can also come up with new and creative stuff. for instance, if you're using chord tones, you can use chromatics to connect them, new or odd patterns, quick hammer-pulls between notes, rhythmic stuff, octaves, double stops, different registers, bends and trem dives, effects, feedback loops, or whatever else you can think of.

what kind of progressions is this guy throwing at you? can you name one, for instance, that gave you problems?


   
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(@simonhome-co-uk)
Prominent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 677
Topic starter  

the other option is just practice playing by ear to the point that it happens without analytical thought, and more like just figuring out which hole to put the peg in, or (if you're into puns) which key to put in the lock. you might fumble around for a second, but pretty soon the door is open and you're free to move around. it really is like that. it's a cool sensation. one second, you're searching around in a dark fog. the next, something clicks and everything is laid out in front of you.

Well thats pretty much what I do already. I just want some way to fast track that inital fumbling really. Like you said playing over lots of random backingjam tracks will help and I'll definately do that. I'm not the kinda guy who likes to fit things together with theory. To me thats science, not music and I dont have the will. I like to know a lot of scales - which I do, but I guess I'm realizing I dont really have a way of putting most of em into practice. I know each mode of the major scale goes with a certain chord, but honestly I'll never use that kinda theory - if I only play those modes over the one particular chord or one related to it, I'll almost never end up using it...Which is where the jam tracks come in I guess - I think I've gotta experiment and find ways of incorporating every scale I know in some context...Anyway, I'm getting side tracked lol, cos that wont really help me at all with the orginal problem of initially fumbling around with wrong notes n such :roll:

What I'd really like to do is get into the head of someone whos quick at playing by ear like this...The thought process that goes into it, if they have a specific method of going about it? :note1:


   
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(@anonymous)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

i'll honestly say that i don't know how it happens. it usually happens automatically for me if my guitar is tuned to standard. at first, it was a lot of hunt and peck, but a lot of the time now, i'll just play what seems to me to be a note at random, and it's in the key. sometimes after that a series of other notes occur naturally, or sometimes i'll figure out what to play next off the first note. if i do make a first mistake, then it's usually correcting it from there. figure out where the right note is from where the wrong note is. you basically have to keep at it until you have at least a foggy idea of where to find the next note up or down is from what you're sitting on, or how to find the note in your head. after that it starts to happen naturally.
i guess it's like singing or typing. if you've been at it for a while, it happens right without thinking. every once in a while you'll start with your fingers shifted over or you'll croak out something strange, but generally everything's pretty much where it always is.


   
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