"yes please, i'll take that guitar in Walmart sunburst.

Ibanez and others have managed to produce great low end stuff for years. If Gibson let's the subcontractor (Samick or similar) do the QC, it'll work. If Gibson insists on doing QC itself -- all bets are off. Gibby has many good designs, but lack of quality control still is its greatest problem.

Ibanez and others have managed to produce great low end stuff for years

Well sure, but their top of line signature models hit the street at about 1500. They devalue, Ibanez doesn't lose much. Gibsons best stuff gets into the 4500+ range. When people pay that much for a guitar, I think they're going to resent sharing a headstock with a $50 guitar.

However, I don't think that's even going to come into the equation, if Gibson has half a brain they'll create a totally separate brand and do a "by Gibson" or "Since 1850" or whatever, and just be using the name to tack on some artificial credibility.
If Gibson insists on doing QC itself...

I don't think there's any chance at all that Gibson will be involved in the QC. That skilled American labor jacks the price up so fast, I don't see that happening.
Really, try one or two of them out(especially you, undercat)

I'm a giant Epiphone fan, truly phenomenal value in their price range. In my experience, at the true entry level of less than $200, the quality I've seen from Epiphone has seemed on par or better than anything else in range.

However... :twisted:

I think the big element of my percieved snobbery probably comes from this silly thing I see people do over again, which is buying an Epi because they really want a Gibson, which is not a valid reason to buy a guitar in my eyes.

If you're in the $400-1000 range, you can find a great used Gibson with absolutely no comprimises, you just have to look a little bit. 8)

If you're in the $400-1000 range, you can find a great used Gibson with absolutely no comprimises, you just have to look a little bit. 8)

This is key for Gibson -- not only for price, but for quality. If you can find a good one at that price snag it, but watch out for the lemons, as there are way too many.

I think the big element of my percieved snobbery probably comes from this silly thing I see people do over again, which is buying an Epi because they really want a Gibson, which is not a valid reason to buy a guitar in my eyes.

Ah, yes. I know what you mean, but trust me, these are exellent guitars, even better IMO than then USA Gibbys under 1500. Belive it or not, there is such a thing as an overseas-made guitar actually rivaling a USA-made one, and please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trash Gibson or anything like that just because I can't afford one. :wink: I truly belive that the MIJ Epi's are a better buy than the lower-end USA Gibsons. Seriously, try one, you'd be suprised. SG's rule! :)

I have a 1982 Epiphone Spirit stamped, "Made in U.S.A." on the back of the headstock and I wouldn't trade or sell it for ANYTHING in the world!

So I can't say either way about what you guys are talking about but, I can say, "try before you buy".

EVERY guitar is different, even within the same models. I'll be interested to see first hand what this new line produces. I'm as curious as george.

Like Tracker I'm curious to see what they can produce. I wouldn't mind having an inexpensive guitar to noodle about with on the back porch. Maybe keep it in an alternate tuning and/or learn some slide with it.

Don't mind my prior "histeria". :roll:

I don't think Epi is going anywhere. There is a definate market for their guitars. I just really hope that their products don't become too hard to come by.

As Fender has its Squire (and some Squires are fine instruments) Gibson will probably market it under another name XXXXX by Gibson as someone suggested.

Something to think about... many of you would probably turn your nose up at the guitars that the likes of Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Albert King, Son House etc. learned on. Maybe even played on during their performing years. Music comes from your soul. You can pay $3000 for a top of the line Gibson but you can't buy soul.

Michael

Can a Korean guitar rival a USA guitar? Too damn right it can. I played a Korean built Washburn HB-35 (ES-335 clone) and the quality of finish was as good as any Gibson I've ever seen. Better yet RRP is $899 against $2500 for a Gibson.

In the asian world of guitars, anything made in Japan would be of much higher quality. Thats good news for the people here. I read somehwere that the reason why japanese guitars are quality instruments is becuase in Japan, they are forced to become perfectionists in the factory, so that equals a better guitar

If you're in the $400-1000 range, you can find a great used Gibson with absolutely no comprimises, you just have to look a little bit. 8)

This is key for Gibson -- not only for price, but for quality. If you can find a good one at that price snag it, but watch out for the lemons, as there are way too many.

True. True. True.

I guess I assume it now, but I think it should almost go without saying that in the modern market of disappearing QC, it's best to do everything in your power to make sure you've got the cream of the crop.

Even if you're going used, guitars of virtually any make and model are not in short supply, so you owe it to yourself to test out as many as you have access to, and test them out well. I also recommend using and abusing any retailer's return policy to the fullest extent of the law. If you like it at first and then start to find that the guitar is not what you thought, or doesn't suit you, is the wrong color, weighs too much or whatever TAKE THAT PUPPY BACK!

In life, it's a rare thing that I find myself with the traditionalist mindset. I'm young (22) and a pretty progressive thinker, but here I keep on feeling the old man pushing my USA Gibsons around.... bleh!

I've come to a lot of guitars that I really wanted to like, really wanted to believe were going to be Gibson killers, only to be dissapointed time and time again. I know I sound arrogant, but I honestly think that if some of those here who swear by Epi so strongly took a good Gibson home for a few months, really got used to getting that extra something from your guitars, you would change your mind. I never thought I would be the tone and feel snob I am now, but there's something there, and I don't think I'm imagining it.

Unfortunately, I think it's virtually impossible to make a truly fair comparison, it's very difficult to be completely unbiased about something you have so much passion for.

If you believe your Epi is the cat's meow, and it is everything you want in a guitar, then the most important thing is that YOU believe that! That confidence will show in your playing, guaranteed.

In the asian world of guitars, anything made in Japan would be of much higher quality.

I don't think that's the case anymore. The newest Samick factory is supposed to the the most highly automated guitar factory in the world, capable of producing about 25,000 instruments per month. I think it's in the Phillipines.

At the very top end, luthiery is an art. A great luthier will partner with the wood, and the grain, runout, etc. will dictate changes in bracing - and perhaps other aspects of the construction. You will never get that quality from a factory built guitar, no matter whose name is on the headstock, or how much marketing they put behind their 'custom shop' labels.

In the mass production world, automation = consistency. Consistency = narrow quality range... which used to take loads of hand inspections. Inspections drive up costs, and lead to higher prices - and because inspectors are human, and sometimes good instruments would happen by accident, you could always (but rarely) find a great 'cheap' instrument - and sometimes (but also rarely) find a poor 'good' instrument.

With all the advances in robotics these days, I see students with $100 guitars that rival the quality of $250 guitars a few years ago. I'm betting the cheapie Wal-Mart stock will be reasonably playable.

I'm betting the cheapie Wal-Mart stock will be reasonably playable.

You are right, the Squier Bullet I played for so long before I got my (still cheap: $200) Agile guitar (Belive me, I've probably spent a whole month non-stop in music stores over the year, playing every guitar under 1000 bucks, and I still think that the feel of my Agile is better than a MIM by far, for half the price!), and the Squier wasn't so bad actually.. I mean the intonation was terrible, and it sounded pretty bad, cheap hardware etc., but it felt decent. It had a kind of small neck that you could "dominate"! I mean, I'm light years away from Hendrix, but I kinda felt like him, because I could play what I was playing with so little effort, even though it wasn't as hard or complicated as what Hendrix played, the neck let me feel like I could do whatever I wanted with it... And thats an awesome feeling... 8)

Just read this off the epiphone forums but those cheap guitars with the gibson logo have arrived!

According to the thread,the guy say gibson SGs and LPs on sale at best buy, and according to him, were much lower class than the current epis are

Read about it here:
http://www.gibson.com/products/epiphone/forum/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=2&tid=120411

I recent trip to Target really surprised me. I've seen guitar there for a while. Cheap accoustic and electric combos. But the other day I saw them carrying trumpets, flutes, clarinets and other instruments. I don't know if it is back to school or what. I do know that I have friends who work at target in product development and they don't carry stuff in their stores unless they are sure they can sell it, so there must be an upsurge in youth musicians or something.

Here in india , they make giVson (that's givson) electrics and acoustic for almost costinn btw 50 to 100 $ and i have heard them so i can say that it is not bad to learn on a cheap quality guitar and maybe after all their sound isn't all that cheap :wink:

Ditto....
But they should learn from Harley Davidson's mistakes.
In the 1970's when AMF owned Harley, they made this little dirtbike type motorcycle to get at the entry level riders... It was so lame that,
I think it actually helped the Japanese makers more than it did the Harley company.

This is WAY off the subject, but I actually owned that motorcycle. It was a 125 cc, POS.

So +1