I want to overhaul my Gretsch junior Jet II over the coming months/year. I think I can do it with stuff from Guitar Fetish entirely...why not? Their stuff is good and cheap. Here's what I want to do:
1) Pickups are just fine...they're the Gretsch-designed mini-humbuckers. Low output. I like them the way they are and have no desire to replace them with anything "better" at the moment. However I could be talked into the GFS Retrotrons. Should I go all out? What do you all think?
2) Tuners are a debatable topic. They hold tune just fine so I'm most likely not going to replace them. However, if I do I've got my eyes on some Wilkinson 18:1 open back tuners. Part of me says just do the whole freaking thing.
3) I need to replace the bridge. Any ideas? I saw on GF a "badass style" wraparound. I need to have a wraparound bridge like that, because the guitar doesnt have space for a stoptail and a tune-o-matic. I need it all in one unit. If you know of any good ones, let me know. The one on it now is non-adjustable. That has to go.
4) Electronics overhaul. This is what it's all about. I don't know what to use though. It's a guitar with a 2 way selector, tone pot, volume pot, 2 pickups (mini-humbuckers). What values of pots do I need? What value of caps? What is the benefit of cloth wiring?
5) Can anyone suggest mods that might be cool/useful/fun/whatever? I really like throwing things out to the community for ideas, because everyone here has good ideas.
So, here's the estimate on parts for me...if I stick with the pickups as they are, it's about $80. To add in the pickups, I'm up to about $165. Not bad. The price is what makes me think I'll just stick with electronics and the bridge, maybe tuners too.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I would go with the Wilkinsen instead of a Badass. the Wilkinsen should have all the adjustability you need with less mechanical complexity. also much more like your original and PRS low mass designs: probably a better match for your instrument.
-=tension & release=-
Ok thanks. I will use that bridge then. Should save a couple of bucks too.
Would some p-90s fit? That'd give you something different and retro all at once.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
nah I'm not going to go for P-90s. I want a Gibson SG classic for that :) I really like the mini humbuckers and if I replace them, I will get GFS mini humbuckers.
Can anyone answer my other couple of questions? I don't know what values of pots or caps to use, and I also don't know if cloth wiring is a good thing or nothing at all. Anyone? help please?
3) I need to replace the bridge. Any ideas? I saw on GF a "badass style" wraparound. I need to have a wraparound bridge like that, because the guitar doesnt have space for a stoptail and a tune-o-matic. I need it all in one unit. If you know of any good ones, let me know. The one on it now is non-adjustable. That has to go.
I like the Gotoh bridges and tuners. I haven't tried their one-piece bridge / stop combo - don't have a guitar with one of those. The Wilkinson brand is a cheaper but still nice sub-brand of Gotoh.
4) Electronics overhaul. This is what it's all about. I don't know what to use though. It's a guitar with a 2 way selector, tone pot, volume pot, 2 pickups (mini-humbuckers). What values of pots do I need? What value of caps? What is the benefit of cloth wiring?
Common values for humbuckers area 500K audio/analog taper for the volume and the tone a 500K pot with the choice sort of a 50:50 split between audio and linear taper (some like one and some like the other). IIRC Gibson uses/used 300K pots. The tone cap is often 0.047 microfarads with a 500K tone pot and smaller values with smaller pot values. The "right" values for these is really a personal preference but starting with the common values is probably a good start. Changing a tone cap can be done in place at a later time.
For mini-humbuckers you may want to go more towards 250K or 300K pots with a 0.022 microfarad cap because they are brighter than regular humbuckers. You might want to find out what Gibson has used for those guitars in the past and use that as a starting point.
Cloth wire benefits? Retro coolness? Sometimes it has a plus because it's quieter - it won't rattle against things like a plastic wire might. That would only really be a benefit in a (semi-) hollow body or an amp.
5) Can anyone suggest mods that might be cool/useful/fun/whatever? I really like throwing things out to the community for ideas, because everyone here has good ideas.
There's a bunch of different things you can do. You could replace the tone pot with a push-pull (or push-push) pot and adjust the wiring in some way - series/parallel, in/out of phase, coil cuts (not sure how that would sound with minis). I wouldn't replace the volume with a push-pull since they only come in mini-pots and I wouldn't want one of those for the volume. You could replace the pickup selector with a rotary switch and access the above options that way.
Pop music is about stealing pocket money from children. - Ian Anderson
thank you sir. I'll keep away from the cloth wiring then. I haven't seen 300k pots...I was looking around on guitarfetish and stewmac and only see the 250 and 500. I read on Seymour Duncan's website, they had a diagram for minihumbuckers and they used 500 pots. Is it true that the higher the value, the less bass is rolled off? if that's the case, maybe I should use 500k, as I've always felt the Gretsch to be a little much on the lower frequencies. Maybe I could use a 500k pot with a .047 cap then? What do you think of that? (I'm trying to learn this electronics stuff on the fly).
I'll keep away from the cloth wiring then.
What you may want to look for is teflon coated wiring. The insulation has a higher melting point than the regular plastic and it won't burn so easily. That makes it a little easier to use. It's a little bit more expensive but in the quantities you have in a guitar it really doesn't matter.
I haven't seen 300k pots...I was looking around on guitarfetish and stewmac and only see the 250 and 500.
They're out there but I wouldn't bother looking for them (you can find them if you google). It was just that if Gibson used 300K then maybe 250K might be ok for use in a humbucker guitar - particularly a brighter humbucker guitar.
I read on Seymour Duncan's website, they had a diagram for minihumbuckers and they used 500 pots. Is it true that the higher the value, the less bass is rolled off?
Well, think of it this way, in "standard" guitar wiring the tone control is simply a variable resistor (the pot) in series with a capacitor that sits between the signal coming from the pickup and the ground. So, it sends signal to the ground - throws it away. The variable resistor has the same resistance for every frequency so a higher value will mean that less signal goes to ground for all frequencies.
The capacitor has a variable resistance (called capacitive reactance - denoted by Z) too though this depends on the frequency of the signal. This resistance is inversely proportional to the frequency and capacitance (proportional to 1/(freq x capacitance)). With a lower frequency the resistance is more and with a higher frequency the resistance is less so more of the higher frequencies go to ground. This resistance of the capacitor is also inversely proportional to the capacitance - that means that smaller cap values have a higher resistance and larger cap values have a lower resistance.
If that's the case, maybe I should use 500k, as I've always felt the Gretsch to be a little much on the lower frequencies. Maybe I could use a 500k pot with a .047 cap then? What do you think of that? (I'm trying to learn this electronics stuff on the fly).
Sure, some of this is really subjective - what do you like the sound of. You can't know that without some experimenting. You can start with a 500K pot and a .047 cap and see how you like it. It wouldn't be too hard to swap caps with everything still in the guitar and not too much harder to change the pot though that is less likely to need to be done.
Pop music is about stealing pocket money from children. - Ian Anderson
If you are looking for an intonable wrap around bridge I found this one on eBay (I've got a standing eBay search for "Gotoh 510" - sometimes I can find their high end tuners or bridges for cheap). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110405934857 It's a Gotoh wrap around with adjustable saddles.
Pop music is about stealing pocket money from children. - Ian Anderson
I enjoyed this thread, the questions and all of the great advice! And here's your guitar?
It's a good thing that you like those pickups, they're probably excellent. GFS may or may not be better, I wouldn't take a chance, giving Gretsch the benefit of the doubt already for their design & Filtertron concept, which they knocked off from themselves. TV Jones is the guy who allegedly improved or is accepted for making superior pickups for Gretsch afficionados or perfectionists.
I think that 500K pots were the best advice, and alternately a .33 microfarad cap, or a vintage style Orange Drop or Sprague could be used for uniqueness, bright and quality tone.
The idea of a push/pull pot to wire both pickups in series would be a blast, nice and loud - Kaboom, like Danelectro's "Blow Switch" and other custom mods. I've gone to http://www.guitarelectronics.zoovy.com for that.
I would also use a treble bleed, simply soldering a tiny cap, like .01uf across the live (not grounded) volume pot lugs to maintain treble clarity at possible lower volumes when used. I think that can be googled for a simple explanation and wiring diagram.
Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.
I know it's an old post but I was searching around, found this and thought i'd post just to get the info out there if nothing else.
3) I need to replace the bridge. Any ideas? I saw on GF a "badass style" wraparound. I need to have a wraparound bridge like that, because the guitar doesnt have space for a stoptail and a tune-o-matic. I need it all in one unit. If you know of any good ones, let me know. The one on it now is non-adjustable. That has to go.
I've got the single bridge PU model and I tried the badass bridge from GFS and it was WAY too big to use on these flattop guitars.It seemed to be made well and would be nice on some guitars but on my Jet all the way down was WAY too high.I'm not talking about being picky here either.Even if I had a saddle file it was WAY too high! :!: I'm not sure what these were made for but the height they need is crazy.
What I ended up doing with mine was using a wrap-around adjustable I took off an Ibanez GAX75. It was perfect.I'm not sure but I think they can be ordered on Ibanez's site.I've never ordered anything from it myself but looks like most parts can be ordered.
I also Tusq nutted it, reamed for full size 18:1 Grovers, GTS pots and drilled between them for a mini switch to coil-tap.
I got a really nice gtr now.
I wanted to change my tuners as well, but the tech I'm using was thrown off by the unusual size of the tuning pegs. What is 'tusq nutting'? Basically, I want to change the bridge and the tuners and leave everything else the same.
