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Replacing active pickups with passive.

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(@niklas)
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Hello,

I own a Schecter Hellraiser C-1 with a couple of EMG humbuckers in it. I think it's an 81 (could be 85) and 60. It's not the same as the ones Schecter sells now with coil-tapping, but an older model without that option (2007 maybe?).

I'm getting a bit tired of the sterile sound from the EMG pups and seriously thinking about replacing them with passive ones. Probably a couple of Seymour Duncan pups. I'm almost set on a '59 in the neck position and still havn't decided on the bridge pickup. Maybe the Pearly Gates (it makes you play like Billy Gibbons, right?), but suggestions are welcome! What I'm looking for is something with vintage or medium output. No metalpickups in other words. Something suitable for blues and classic rock.

Now to my real question. When changing from active to passive pups the pots needs to be changed from 25kOhm to 500kOhm. But which ones do I buy? My main concern is the physical size, I want them to fit the guitar. But maybe it doesn't matter to much and it's a standardized size? I'm interested in buying push/pull pots and making the humbuckers to singlecoils with coiltapping. It would also be interesting to have the ability to phase-reverse the neck pickup (Peter Green mod). It's preferable if they are available at thomann.de. The musicshops here are very limited in their replacement part sections here. I've tried finding information on changing from active to passive but I can't find anything.

I've also read somewhere that I need a new output jack when changing to passive, so what to get? Is there anything else I have to think about?

The option to take it to a guitar tech is out of the question. Because of bad experience I don't trust them and the price they are asking for a regular pickup switch (from passive to passive) is ridicoulous (1200 SEK/€140). I've done much more complicated soldering and electrical work before so it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not good with mechanical problems though!

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@niklas)
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It's a bit quiet around here... :p.

Anyhow, I found a great site site for anyone with plans to change the wiring in their guitar and/or replacing pickups: http://www.1728.org/guitar.htm . It explains how everything works in a very good way instead of just put this here.

Also, the wiring schematics on the Seymour duncan site are perfectly clear on how to solder. http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/products/electric/humbuckers/501005-110.pdf .

So, I'll probably just buy some standard 500kOhm pots, input jack and a couple of 47 uF condensators. Along with the pickups of course. I'll update when I've ordered the parts and then again when I've done the work.

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@ezraplaysezra)
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I really like the JB with the '59 (so does Seymour himself) and the Alnico II's are really really nice sounding PAF's. you will want to switch the Volume pot to 500ohm.


   
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(@niklas)
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I really like the JB with the '59 (so does Seymour himself) and the Alnico II's are really really nice sounding PAF's. you will want to switch the Volume pot to 500ohm.

You mean 500 kohm? Quite a big difference :P. And the tone pot too.

The Livewire-set are active pickups meant to replicate the JB and Jazz pickups but with higher output: http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/sets/livewire_dave_m/

Could they be an option? Or would they still be too high-gain? Would be nice to just have to pop in new pups without changing all the electronics if I could get away with it.

EDIT: Nevermind listened to the soundclips, not an option... quite awful sounding in my opinion, especially the clean tone.

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@ezraplaysezra)
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500K - the tone should be fine - if not replace the cap then the pot if you still don't like it.


   
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(@imalone)
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Log pots! (For tone too I've come to the conclusion...)

Push-pull switched pots are much longer/deeper than plain pots (because they have a massive switch stuck on the back of them). You probably want to check the cavity depth beforehand.


   
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(@niklas)
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Log pots! (For tone too I've come to the conclusion...)

Push-pull switched pots are much longer/deeper than plain pots (because they have a massive switch stuck on the back of them). You probably want to check the cavity depth beforehand.

These are the tips I'm looking for! Thank you very much. Yes, I realize about the volume pots being log pots because our hearing being logaritmic (dB). But you actually prefer the tone to be logaritmic too? That's usually linear as I understood it. It should be linear if it together with a capacitor acts like a low-pass filter.

I was also worried about the length of the push-pull switch, but I've had a look and there seems to be a lot of space for them. And my guitar model is selling now with push-pull pots. I'll take measurements before I order though.

I've decided on the JB and '59 combination becasue of the versatility. And I'll only do the coil-splitting option and skip the out-of-phase thing. Now I'm just waiting for the money to order these things.

I've also found this which should make everything a breeze! Only the need for the one push-pull pot i see now. Good.
http://www.schecterguitars.com/Handler.ashx?Item_ID=137&display=seriesspec

But looking at that wiring diagram only one thing is confusing me. The bridge ground wire that goes to (what!? Out of the picture). This is not done one the EMG:s I have now. Is it soldered to the guitar bridge somehow?

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@imalone)
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Log pots! (For tone too I've come to the conclusion...)
These are the tips I'm looking for! Thank you very much. Yes, I realize about the volume pots being log pots because our hearing being logaritmic (dB). But you actually prefer the tone to be logaritmic too? That's usually linear as I understood it. It should be linear if it together with a capacitor acts like a low-pass filter.

It acts as a low pass filter, and adjusting the tone control will affect the width (a bit, really change the capacitor or overall pot value to do that), but what it really does change is the depth of the filter, which is actually volume (a very basic EQ). I installed a push-pull tone pot and assumed it should be linear, discovered the old one was log and that I now have all the tone sweep between about 0-3.
But looking at that wiring diagram only one thing is confusing me. The bridge ground wire that goes to (what!? Out of the picture). This is not done one the EMG:s I have now. Is it soldered to the guitar bridge somehow?
Yes, the bridge is earthed, so one end of that wire should go through the body to the bridge somehow.


   
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(@niklas)
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But looking at that wiring diagram only one thing is confusing me. The bridge ground wire that goes to (what!? Out of the picture). This is not done one the EMG:s I have now. Is it soldered to the guitar bridge somehow?
Yes, the bridge is earthed, so one end of that wire should go through the body to the bridge somehow.

Ok, I'll have to look if there is a possible way to actually to have a connection between the pots and the bridge. It could be that there is no pathway for some wire between the back cavity and behind the bridge if it wasn't needed from the start. This could ruin the whole project, because I'm not going to start drilling.

It's because stuff like this I want to make sure before I buy anything. All searches about this resulted in "you need to change the pots too". Yeah, I think that's the least of my problems.

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@imalone)
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Ok, I'll have to look if there is a possible way to actually to have a connection between the pots and the bridge.

I didn't realise that, http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/111283-grounding-active-pickups.html with active pickups you don't necessarily have a bridge earth. This seems to be exactly your case https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13690.0%3bwap2 , there may be a hole drilled already. I don't know how much effect it will have to not earth the bridge.

Edit: last post in this http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-384674.html suggests there's hope, but obviously you'll want to be careful looking for this mythical path to the bridge.


   
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(@niklas)
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Well, this is depressing :(.

I would really like to have your google skills!! I don't how many times I searched without finding the pages you're linking too.

To be honest, it feels like it would be a better chose to sell this guitar to some kid who only plays metal and buy a new guitar. If I find a used Les Paul I think the actual cost would be about the same as taking this guitar to a tech here. I'm not kidding about the prices they charge to fix something here. It's like $80 for them to just change strings!

And they probably wouldn't earth the bridge anywhy if I told them to change pickups. And then I would have a guitar with a loud 50 cycle hum (yes, it's 50 Hz in Europe, but 60 Hz in the States). My confidence in guitarshops are extremly low.

I probably should get an estimation of how much it would cost before selling anything though. Just in case. And tell them about the bridge earth thing. I really wish I had a guitar tech I knew I could trust.

This also explains why my Hollowbody has quite a bit of humming. The bridge is made out of wood! And it's difficult working with the electronics on hollowbodys.

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@niklas)
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Did a quick cost estimation would the new pickups + electronics + work for a tech would cost = $768!

Like I'm going to pay that much! Then it would be much better of buying a new guitar. I'm going to mail the guitar shop and see what they say.

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@imalone)
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Is that mostly the pickups? Seems a bit high even for Sweden. Maybe mail Schecter and see what they say about a hole for earthing the bridge, could be it just gets drilled in those bodies as standard. Astonished anyone could charge $80 (USD?) to change strings. On the other hand, if you could find ten people who need string changes then you'd be sorted...


   
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(@niklas)
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No, it's mostly the work. I would order the pickups online which would save me a lot of money.

Yes, that's USD. Their excuse is that they need to do a complete setup too. So you can't only change the strings.

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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(@niklas)
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Got an answer now. The work will be 273 USD (1800 SEK). That's just as much as the pickups if I order them online. Then the cost of pots and wire will be added so that's another 30-50 USD. So it will be almost $600. And that's with no setup afterwards...

To me it's just not worth the money. I'll ask them if they can just drill the hole so I can do the work then. That would be 200-500 SEK they said depending on how much work.

If I sold my guitar I could get 750-800 USD (Even though it was 1400 USD new) I think. So this would be quite a stupid investment. If I put the money for the pickup change and the money I could get from selling it, I would have 1400 USD to spend on a guitar. That would almost buy me a nice second-hand Gibson, which then would have a much better resale-value.

A pickup change wouldn't change the value of the guitar either (maybe to the lower if anything).

"Talent is luck. The important thing in life is courage."


   
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