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First stereo recording of acoustic guitar

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(@jewtemplar)
Posts: 186
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Topic starter
 

Long time no post. I have been researching a lot and have made some small, but important upgrades to my recording setup, whose first fruit is the following short clip:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6164047

This is just a fragment of a song (a folky acoustic cover of "Hey Ya," which is one of my projects in the next few weeks. I'm thinking lead and rhythm acoustic guitar, violin and vocals). It's just a minute or so of strummed acoustic guitar as a test of my new Audio-Technica condenser microphones.

I set the AT2020 in front of me, pointed at the 12th fret, and pointed the AT2021 (a small diaphragm condenser) at the bridge from over my right shoulder. Both mikes were about 10 inches away from the guitar, and were plugged in to the preamps on my Peavey PV6 mixer, which I ran into the line inputs on my Emu 0202 USB interface. I recorded in Cubase LE with no effects or eq, and just panned the channels left and right. I encoded the resulting wav file to 128 kbps mp3 in RazorLame, and unfortunately the compression artifacts are painfully apparent, but this is the highest bitrate soundclick allows (I'm looking into somewhere else to host these things).

I'd appreciate any comments on any aspect of the recording (although I know the actual guitar playing is kind of sloppy). In particular, I'd be very interested in comments on the stereo technique, which is completely new to me. I recorded this in an x-y configuration as well, but preferred the sound with the spaced pair. To my ears it sounds wonderful, but I'm used to miking with a single SM 57, and don't have a good sense of the advantages of the various techniques.

Thanks in advance for your help.
~Sam

P.S. the low frequency hum is in the room, not coming from the gear.

~Sam

 
Posted : 13/01/2008 7:15 am
 KR2
(@kr2)
Posts: 2717
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All the technical stuff is gobbledygook to me but I will say that is the best quality recording I have heard via internet.
I could hear your fingers moving on the strings and the pick on the strings. The hum is only noticeable the first few seconds.
What ever you were trying to do, I think you did it.
Any sharper than that, someone's going to get hurt.

It's the rock that gives the stream its music . . . and the stream that gives the rock its roll.

 
Posted : 13/01/2008 9:09 am
(@dogbite)
Posts: 6348
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your miking sounds very good. the AT2020 sounds surprising good for a 100 dollar mike.
I record into Cubase LE too. I use a Lexicon interface. I think your success is due to miking at the 12th fret. the typical boom from miking a near the sound hole is gone. the small condenser at the bridge is a cool idea. it snagged the brightness that I find missing in my miked recordings.
nice,and thanks for the info.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders

 
Posted : 13/01/2008 1:46 pm
(@hueseph)
Posts: 1543
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Sounds good. Question: when you did the XY how far away were you placing the mics? A pattern like that really is only good for distant micing at least 6 feet away or preferrably more. Really it's only valuable when you're micing a group. For a guitar a coincident pair might work better. (I know that some people call a coincident pair xy but I was taught that xy is two mics one above the other forming an actual x pattern and that coincident pair is capsules touching at 45degrees.)

The only things that stood out to my ears is that I didn't hear as much of the woodiness of the guitar body as I would have liked and maybe a bit of the brassiness of the strings but of course, this is all a matter of taste. The AT 2020 isn't a particularly fragile mic nor is it all that sensitive as far as Condensers are concerned. I think you could bring out more body by micing more toward the soundhole. I know that this is a general source of boominess but I think you could get away with it using that mic. Just a thought. It sounds like you're micing a decent guitar so you've got that part of the battle beat.

https://soundcloud.com/hue-nery/hue-audio-sampler

 
Posted : 14/01/2008 5:20 pm
(@joefish)
Posts: 75
Trusted Member
 

There's something to be said for doing things the old-fanshioned way. We have all these plugin's and filters available to us in our software sequencers, but nothing sounds better than a little creative micing. I love the simple reverb effect and the slight tonal separation. Sounds pure. It has inspired me to do some experimenting myself.

Very Nice.

==================
Pat
joefish
SilverBox

"Music so wishes to be heard that it sometimes calls on unlikely characters to give it voice".
Robert Fripp

 
Posted : 15/01/2008 11:34 pm
(@jewtemplar)
Posts: 186
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Topic starter
 

Hueseph,
When I did the XY it was around a foot away from the 12th fret, and the capsules were very close to each other, so I guess that's a coincident pair. Miking the sound hole with the 2020 definitely sounds interesting, and should definitely be feasible because the low frequency roll-off starts at that unusually high 200 Hz, if I recall. As for the brassiness of the strings, these are pretty old. They sound mellow to me (though still pleasant, not dull), and they were of course brilliant beyond compare when first wound up. As for the guitar itself, I'm more happy with it every day. Best birthday present I ever got (and, I think, a steal at the $350 my parents paid for it). I am in the middle of exams right now, so I won't be recording any more for a week or so, but when I do I will try both coincident and spaced pairs with the 2020 angled to pick up some of the soundhole resonance and the 2021 doing neck duty.

Thanks for all your replies. I can't wait to keep messing around with this stuff.

~Sam

 
Posted : 16/01/2008 12:06 am
(@hueseph)
Posts: 1543
Noble Member
 

Don't get me wrong. It sounds real good. Plenty better than a lot I've heard. The little details are just nitpicking but sometimes it's what can take your recordings to the next step.

Edit: By the way, Near coincident and xy are essentially the same if not the same. They work on the same principle. You can vary the point at which they meet. There are so many description for a stereo pair and patterns that really are based on the same fundamental ideas. Really, there are only a few fundamental techniques, coincident pair (xy), ORTF, MId/Side, Blumlein and Spaced pair. The rest are usually variations of ORTF or coincident pair. It get's a bit stupid when they start talking about near coincident and variations of angles and distances. Again most of these techniques are only used for choral and orchestral work.

https://soundcloud.com/hue-nery/hue-audio-sampler

 
Posted : 16/01/2008 12:47 am
(@jewtemplar)
Posts: 186
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Topic starter
 

Back from break, a new set of strings, and a new go at recording my acoustic guitar. This time I pointed the 2020 towards the soundhole, angled slightly towards the bridge, and the 2021 around the 12th fret. Also, instead of panning hard left and right, I did roughly 2:1 ratios (with the soundhole mike emphasized in the left channel).
The files are "Stereo Guitar test" and "Another test" at
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=725941&content=music

I found that the mp3 encoder in iTunes seems to do a better job than the Lame encoder, at least for acoustic guitar, so the older test has been updated.
Comments as always are welcome. Obviously the guitar sounds a lot better with new strings, but I think the more organic sounding low end also has to do with the different miking technique. I also like the slightly narrower stereo image.

~Sam

 
Posted : 04/02/2008 4:23 am
(@hueseph)
Posts: 1543
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That new file sounds incredible. Really, really lush. Great job. Now off to record a new tune for us.

https://soundcloud.com/hue-nery/hue-audio-sampler

 
Posted : 04/02/2008 6:16 am
(@dogbite)
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(@hueseph)
Posts: 1543
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Going back to listen to both tracks again, I think both of them are totally usable for different applications. I'm partial to that second attempt though. It sounds really nice.

https://soundcloud.com/hue-nery/hue-audio-sampler

 
Posted : 04/02/2008 7:54 pm
(@studiofive)
Posts: 6
Active Member
 

Sorry, haven't listened to the stereo pair, but your cover of Sweet Child of Mine was very nice!

 
Posted : 05/02/2008 4:29 am