Copyrights to cover songs

A copyright belongs to the original author - so you can't get a copyright for something that's been written by someone else. What you need is a license - which is permission to publish or publicly perform someone else's song (and you'll need one even if you don't charge - you're still "publishing" by putting it on a website).

To get a license, you need to find out what performing rights agency (BMI, ASCAP, SESAC) controls the song. Then you sign a contract, and pay them for the rights. If you're charging anything (or selling advertising) they'll want a slice of the action; if you're doing it free, they'll want a per-hit rate - every rights organization will be different, but they'll probably all be in fractions of a cent per hit.

But that can add up - get a million page hits and 1/10th of a cent per hit will come to $1,000.

Again, I hope this is the right forum (it's related to the website thread), I have a question about copyrighting cover songs.

I'm guessing the answer is no, but… If I do a cover song (say Beatles), record it and post it on the internet but say it is a “Beatles” song but do not SELL IT, do you still have to get a copyright?

I've been reading up on this (Copyright's) and it's …. Confusing to say the least? Anyone that's interested here is a good link:
http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/music_copyright_law.html

Bob Jessie

It IS complicated, and I'll try to keep the legalese out of it this 'cause it confuses me at times also.

First though, there's this: You can't get a copyright on another persons original copyrighted work. Period. All you can do is get a license ( that means permission) to use their work.

There are several things that can be copyrighted in any sound recording for a song.

* There are the actual sounds themselves -- the performance of the work.
* There are the notes that the musicians play to create the song -- they could be embodied in sheet music.
* There are the lyrics for the song -- they can be written down on a sheet of paper.

To record a cover version of a song you need to get a license to use the second and third items on this list. Together these are called the publishing rights

There's two ways you can do this.
1) you can buy a compulsory license through the Harry Fox Agency.
2) you can contact the artist directly and negotiate the terms directly with them.

Once you've done this, the actual performance of the cover is YOUR copyrighted work.

Which brings us to to performance rights. If someone wants to play a recording to entertain the public, they need to license the performance rights for the recording. This can be done by contacting ASCAP or BMI, who broker the performance rights to about 4,000,000 songs each.

All this is leading up to the answer to your question, "If I do a cover song (say Beatles), record it and post it on the internet but say it is a “Beatles” song but do not SELL IT, do you still have to get a copyright?"

The short answer: Yes.

Not getting a license to use the publishing opens you up to prosecution for copyright violations even though you're not profiting from it. The issue isn't whether you make money from it, but whether or not you have made a copy of the original melody and/or lyrics without permission.

I'd suggest making an attempt to contact the artist directly and explain what you want to do. It may take some time and persistence with someone who's huge (like the Beatles), but many artists are far more accessible than you might think. Besides, at worst all they can do is say "No." if you ask for free permission. You can always buy a compulsory license, which really isn't very expensive if you expect small numbers of plays

Thanks (Noteboat and Moonrider)! When I said COPYRIGHT I did mean license. My mistake...

I just thought that - if you weren't selling it , they didn't care!

Bob Jessie

A copyright belongs to the original author - so you can't get a copyright for something that's been written by someone else. What you need is a license - which is permission to publish or publicly perform someone else's song (and you'll need one even if you don't charge - you're still "publishing" by putting it on a website).

To get a license, you need to find out what performing rights agency (BMI, ASCAP, SESAC) controls the song. Then you sign a contract, and pay them for the rights. If you're charging anything (or selling advertising) they'll want a slice of the action; if you're doing it free, they'll want a per-hit rate - every rights organization will be different, but they'll probably all be in fractions of a cent per hit.

But that can add up - get a million page hits and 1/10th of a cent per hit will come to $1,000.

I remember having to go through "Harry somebody" not direct to BMI, and there was a fairly high minimum fee. I was looking to post something in a GN lesson, but they didn't have a "teacher's" license or other non-profit option. It got complicated very fast. The set-up is really designed for lawyers and agents.

There is a method for bars and bar bands, where the bar pays a fixed fee to BMI which allows them to have live bands who will play cover songs without the band having the license.

Or something like that...

I remember having to go through "Harry somebody" not direct to BMI, and there was a fairly high minimum fee. I was looking to post something in a GN lesson, but they didn't have a "teacher's" license or other non-profit option. It got complicated very fast. The set-up is really designed for lawyers and agents.

There is a method for bars and bar bands, where the bar pays a fixed fee to BMI which allows them to have live bands who will play cover songs without the band having the license.

Or something like that...

Yep, this is where a lot of people get confused . . .

The Harry Fox Agency handles compulsory licenses, for the publishing (melody and lyrics). Compulsory License means you're paying the highest possible legislated licensing fees, and by doing this, you MUST be granted a license to use the publishing. It's not at all uncommon for an artist to agree to a lower fee for you to use the publishing. If part of the agreement is that you NOT sell your performance, they could possibly NOT charge you to use their publishing!

The publishing is what you have to license to record your own cover (or arrangement) of a song. The recording you make is a performance in its own right, of your arrangement, and the performance rights for that recording belong to you.

ASCAP and BMI handle the royalty payments for public performances of a work. Usually that means the fees are for playing the records on a jukebox for the customers. It also covers the live performance of someone else's publishing.

Should be about as clear as thin mud now . . . :lol:

Getting to be clear as mud to me too, and I've followed this stuff for over 25 years!

ASCAP, BMI, etc. do license the bars and other venues for public performances. But they're now also licensing works for internet performance; I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that you'd need Harry Fox or a negotiated deal if you're planning to release a recording - a physical or digital download - but if you're planning on streaming in a non-downloadable fashion the ASCAP agreement (or whoever) might do the trick.

I can't see needing both, but that's possible. Any good IP lawyers in the house for free advice?

Getting to be clear as mud to me too, and I've followed this stuff for over 25 years!

ASCAP, BMI, etc. do license the bars and other venues for public performances. But they're now also licensing works for internet performance; I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that you'd need Harry Fox or a negotiated deal if you're planning to release a recording - a physical or digital download - but if you're planning on streaming in a non-downloadable fashion the ASCAP agreement (or whoever) might do the trick.

I can't see needing both, but that's possible. Any good IP lawyers in the house for free advice?

Deborah Neville does an IP rights blog. She's a fairly well known lawyer in Los Angeles. Her blog has several excellent entries on copyright and stuff like that. She also did several webcast seminars last year.
http://www.idealawyerblog.com/2006/07/attorney_deborah_neville_1.html

You don't need both, Nick.

Let's take a fairly well known cover tune for an example . . . say "A Little Help From My Friends" by the Beatles. Joe Cocker had a pretty big hit with it too. Here's how things work out.

Publishing rights (melody and lyrics) go to John Lennon and Paul McCartney as co-writers of the song.

Performance royalties go to all four of the Beatles for the original recording.

Joe Cocker decides he wants to record a cover. He purchases a license to use the publishing to record his own version. Remember, this can be done through Harry Fox Agency, or directly from the writers.

Performance royalties for the new recording belong to Joe. The publishing royalties (even for the new arrangement - it's still their melody and lyrics) still go to John and Paul.

ASCAP/BMI would collect performance fees for the NEW recording for Joe, and performance fees for the original go to the Beatles.

Joe is free to sell or stream copies of HIS recording. It's considered his work, and he's licensed the use of the publishing.

Spot on, Mr Moonrider!

Cat

Just to muddy it up a bit more-

International rights and licensing, anyone?

I'm currently in Ecuador, where mostly intellectual property is ignored under local law.

Local bands performing covers pretty much ignore everything to do with licenses. But if they recorded for distribution by international means, like the internet... ?

Any clues?

best,
Ande

Just to muddy it up a bit more-

International rights and licensing, anyone?

I'm currently in Ecuador, where mostly intellectual property is ignored under local law.

Local bands performing covers pretty much ignore everything to do with licenses. But if they recorded for distribution by international means, like the internet... ?

Any clues?

best,
Ande

Ecuador and the US are both signatories to the Berne Convention, which would cover international rights between the two countries. I have no idea what the Ecuadorian copyright laws are :)

Oh well-

It scarcely matters. The country is so completely screwed that there aren't any resources going on reinforcement.

My favorite CD store sells only pirates- so who's gonna worry about what I record? (Which no one really will want to hear...)

Best,
Ande