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My latest project


(@jwmartin)
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Joined: 15 years ago
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Started jamming this one the other night with a friend and decided to record a full cover of it. I got the drums and piano MIDI from a Guitar Pro file and recorded 2 guitar tracks, 1 lead vocal track and 3 backing vocal tracks myself. I originally recorded the guitar direct in and was using an amp simulator, but it just didn't sound right, so today I stuck an SM57 in front of my amp and hit record. I used the same guitar (Squier '51 with pickups changed), but rhythm guitar is using clean channel and neck pickup (a telecaster single coil) and lead is using a slightly overdriven channel with both neck and bridge pickups (tele + Fat Pat humbucker).

While I was mixing, I didn't listen to the original because I didn't want to copy the mix. I've been mixing on headphones and I'm pretty tired right now, so I'm sure I'll revisit it tomorrow and think it sounds terrible. Looking for any input on the mix...let me have it.

http://soundcloud.com/hailcorduroy/breakdown

Edit: I have to admit, I did use some pitch correction on the background vocals (not the lead though). We have company in this weekend and I had a brief window of time this afternoon while everyone was out of the house to record vocals. I'm not used to attempting a 3 part harmony with myself, so I was off in places.

Bass player for Undercover


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(@alangreen)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5367
 

Nicely understated. I enjoyed that.

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


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(@trguitar)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3711
 

Awsome job! This stuf is fun isn't it! 8)

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


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(@jwmartin)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1437
Topic starter  

Thanks guys. Just listened to it with fresh ears this morning and notice that the lead guitar is too loud and the tone is too bright. I think I'm going to re-record it, even though that pass was the only time I even came close to hitting that last bit of the solo.

Bass player for Undercover


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(@rparker)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5492
 

Yeah, there's some depth missing in the lead guitar tone. I wasn't thinking re-track, though. I'd be curious to hear how it sounds double tracked, panned a little more up front if it isn't and some EQ. Maybe go down on the freq that's biting through enough to make you say it's too loud and coming up a little bit in the lower mids or something? Just a thought.

my other thought would be some thickening in the low end on the kit. Either that or I'm hearing everything very thin today. (sigh - it does change....)

Otherwise a very nice mix.

Those vocals are tough to do. I certainly don't have that range. I could bring in boats through thick fog, but couldn't pull off singing 'Petty. :)

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


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(@trguitar)
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The singing was pretty good. That I envy. :mrgreen:

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


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(@jwmartin)
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Roy, for experimentation's sake, I will play with the mix without re-recording. I always work on the theory that "if it sounds good going in, I don't have to mess with it.", but it will be interesting to see how much I can change the tone without making it sound bad. I do have a little EQ on there now, but just to make room for the other instruments. I will tweak the kit a little too.

Thanks on the singing. I seem to be able to mimic Petty on some of his songs. I do Mary Jane's Last Dance with an acoustic and can sound just like him on the verses. I feel like my singing has come a long way recently. I volunteered to sing Sultans of Swing with my band and I've been adding in more songs that I sing since then (up to 5 now). Having to sing in front of everyone at practice and then on stage in front of a crowd will light a fire under your butt. I told my wife that my Christmas present request would 3 or 4 vocal lessons. Just to learn some better technique and have someone really critique what I'm doing.

Bass player for Undercover


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(@trguitar)
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I think when the lead guitar is farther back in the mix you may not find it too bright any more. We'll see won't we.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


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(@jwmartin)
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OK, I'm not done with it yet, but I reached a stopping point and I'm pretty happy with how it sounds. I do want to record that little lick that the lead guitar does at the very beginning. Other than that, I was able to tweak the existing recordings, even the drums. I used the rendered track of the drums and didn't cheat and go back to Addictive and tweak the kit that way. I reduced the volume of the lead and re-EQed everything to make everything fit together better. I think you can hear each instrument individually now. I fattened the drums up a bit, brightened up the rhythm guitar and cleared up the vocals. I also brought up the backing vocals a little in the mix. I think I buried them because I wasn't happy with how they came out. And reduce the reverb a bit to clear some mud.

Roy, I tried your suggestion of doubling the lead and it just didn't feel right (I have used the before, it just didn't fit this). I changed the delay I was using to fatten it up a bit though.

http://soundcloud.com/hailcorduroy/breakdown-mix-2

Bass player for Undercover


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(@trguitar)
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I think your making progress. The little lick at the beginning is a little reverby (is that a word?) but I like the tone of the rest of the lead. It's sounding good.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


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(@rparker)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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Roy, for experimentation's sake, I will play with the mix without re-recording.
That's why we're doing this here instead of the other forum section, right? Play with mixes. Learn through others. That's what I'm doing. Learning through yooze guys. 8) 8)
....even the drums. I used the rendered track of the drums and didn't cheat and go back to Addictive and tweak the kit that way
Sounds nice as well. I'm doing this most of the time as well. A MIDI from GP, run it through Strike (another drum VI) and render however many tracks. I then bus the individual tracks into 1 drum-out track. All the panning and effects done on individual tracks stays intact. I get to do things to the kit as a whole, too, on that one drum-out track.
I think your making progress. The little lick at the beginning is a little reverby (is that a word?) but I like the tone of the rest of the lead. It's sounding good.
I agree. Pretty nice set of adjustments.
Roy, I tried your suggestion of doubling the lead and it just didn't feel right (I have used the before, it just didn't fit this). I changed the delay I was using to fatten it up a bit though. I need to get better at using delay and such. It's probably a much better way in most cases.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


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(@boxboy)
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OK, I'll be the contrarian. I prefer the first mix. :lol: It's a little wooly sounding but it meshes together better for me.
With this one, the elements are more discrete for sure, but they create a sort of ping pong effect: Pay attention left channel, then pay attention right channel...it makes me very aware I'll listening to a recording of constructed elements.
Maybe this brightening but tighter panning of the elements? Might muddy things up in a good way and make things sound more cohesive.

Don


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(@jwmartin)
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OK, I'll be the contrarian. I prefer the first mix. :lol: It's a little wooly sounding but it meshes together better for me.
With this one, the elements are more discrete for sure, but they create a sort of ping pong effect: Pay attention left channel, then pay attention right channel...it makes me very aware I'll listening to a recording of constructed elements.
Maybe this brightening but tighter panning of the elements? Might muddy things up in a good way and make things sound more cohesive.

Cool, I'll keep that in mind when I'm mixing tonight :) I'll reduce the panning a little and try to make it more cohesive.

Bass player for Undercover


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(@danlasley)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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Sounds really good.

Ah, panning. You've got the lead guitar and keyboard hard to one side, and the 2nd guitar hard to the other. The bass is very round, so there really isn't much to fill in the middle except the vocal. For me, I would move the lead guitar 1/3 center, especially during the solo, and leave the keyboard hard to one side. Treat the lead solo as if it were a voice.

I try to imagine the stage and have the panning match the placement of the instruments, so the drums shouldn't be too wide - from half-left to half-right, with the kick dead center. Bass should be close to center as well.

When playing with the drums, if you have separate tracks, try adding reverb to a mix of everything except the kick. Feel free to bump the deep end of the kick.


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(@jwmartin)
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Joined: 15 years ago
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Sounds really good.

Ah, panning. You've got the lead guitar and keyboard hard to one side, and the 2nd guitar hard to the other. The bass is very round, so there really isn't much to fill in the middle except the vocal. For me, I would move the lead guitar 1/3 center, especially during the solo, and leave the keyboard hard to one side. Treat the lead solo as if it were a voice.

I try to imagine the stage and have the panning match the placement of the instruments, so the drums shouldn't be too wide - from half-left to half-right, with the kick dead center. Bass should be close to center as well.

When playing with the drums, if you have separate tracks, try adding reverb to a mix of everything except the kick. Feel free to bump the deep end of the kick.

Yea, I meant to pan the lead over to the center during the lead parts. Everything is about 50% on either side right now. I actually like the effect of hard panning and have been using it on a few things. When listening on speakers, you don't really notice. It's when you listen on headphones that it stands out.

Every time I go back in and listen, I find some other thing I don't like :D

Bass player for Undercover


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