Phantom Power and Mic Preamps...

uh, if it helps...I'm running Nuendo 4 on a Mac G5 2GH

here's a 4 channel phantom power supply for 63UKquid http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_pp4.htm

I was thinking of just getting that, then getting a decent mic pre if I need it, I'm just a tad bit confused as to how important mic pre's are, and how much quality is reflected by price in this area.

A good preamp will make all the difference in the world in regards to sound quality. A poor preamp will impart more noise than you want. Especially when using a dynamic mic because dynamics tend to require more gain. More gain, more noise. The better your preamp, the less noise you will be adding with gain. As far as whether or not to get a preamp as opposed to a newer interface, that depends on what you plan on recording and how much money you are willing to spend.

A lot of people like the Presonus FP10 aka firepod as well as the Firestudio. For the price, they're great units. If you want to go a little higher end the RME Fireface gets good reviews but it does have a significantly higher price tag at around $1500.00 cdn. But if you only plan on recording yourself, you might be better off buying the best preamp you can afford that has phantom power.

Here's a worthwhile investment IMHO:

http://www.audiomidi.com/Solo-610-Classic-Tube-Mic-Pre-P8216.aspx

First off, all preamps, mixers, and interfaces with phantom power have the option of turning it off. So don't worry about using dynamic mikes on preamps with phantom power
EXCEPT:
Be careful if you plan on recording simultaneously on a dynamic microphone and a condenser. Many mixers and interfaces have global phantom power, meaning it feeds it to all channels at once. Phantom power shouldn't damage a dynamic mic, but sometimes it can induce a hum in the signal (this is the case with my Shure SM 57 and Peavey PV6 mixer, which are otherwise perfectly functional). So if you are considering buying a unit with global phantom power, make sure to plug in a dynamic mic, engage phantom power, and turn up the gain to make sure there are no problems.

As for standalone preamps, I have no experience with them myself, but in the course of browsing the studio-central forums ( http://studio-central.com/phpbb/index.php , a great resource), there seems to be a near-unanimous recommendation of the FMR RNP (Really Nice Preamp):
http://www.fmraudio.com/RNP8380.htm .

It's a two channel solid state preamp that goes for around $500 US. It has switchable phantom power on each channel (this is standard on most quality preamps, to my knowledge), so you can plug in a dynamic mic and a condenser simultaneously with no worries. It's described as an excellent all around preamp that doesn't color the sound. It will probably be the next major addition to my setup once I can find the money/justification.

Major props for the swift responses guys. :D

At the moment I'm just recording myself, and mates doing acoustic stuff (we can do the instruments and vox track by track), but the end goal (which I'm sure we all secretly harbour) is to be able to record a band live, all properly mic'd.

From what yo've both said, I think I'll look at getting a decent preamp like the RNP mentioned - at straight conversion thats around 250UK quid, which is way less than I thought I'd have to spend on this, although I'm sure our actual shop prices will make me weep. My current interface should easily suffice for now, and I'll think about upgrading that and/or getting more mic pre's as and when I can afford to extend my studio.

I'll let you know how I get on. :mrgreen:

Update:: the cheapest I'm finding the FMR RNP is 361UK quid, a lil more than 250 I was expecting but not too bad (browsing Sound on Sound magazine had me almost convinced I wouldn't get anything decent for less than a Grand :shock: ). I'd rather pay the extra cash for something decent than get something cheaper only to have to replace it a few months down the line.

If anyone has any thoughts/comments on the RNP and/or the Motu 8pre (the latter is 360UK quid) I'd welcome them. I was considering Motu for an interface (which I'll still invest in, just at a later date),

Now, for another stupid question :roll: - would you advise using the preamp on all recordings where I'm using mics? And could I also use it on, say, a guitar (with the lead from guitar ging to the pre)? Or would that be utterly hazardous for either guitar, preamp, or both?

You can probably tell I've reached information overload. :lol:

aight, update time.........

having spent the last couple of hours going over gear in Sound on Sound and recalculating my budget several times (I keep hoping an extra Grand or so of money will magically appear in my calculations :roll: ), I've decided to go with the RNP and use my Tascam USB interface for the time being. If do invest further right now, it'll be in mic's since they tend to hold their price better than anything vaguely computer related. But I'm planning to save regularly and research this part of the recoding setup further, so 6 months/1 year down the line I'll (a) have the cash to upgrade further and (b) have more knowledge about this bit of 'the kit' so I don't end up blowing obscene amounts of money on things I don't really need.

cheers for the link to the techie site - I'm definitely gonna be spending some loooonnnnng hours on there in comin months reading up on all this. :mrgreen:

Scrybe's goal: get gear in and up and running by 1st of Feb so I can post some audio on here (even if it is a cover). Then I can justify turning the spare room into a vocal booth, install that 32 channel mixer, buy some ribbon mics..............(I wish).

would you advise using the preamp on all recordings where I'm using mics? And could I also use it on, say, a guitar (with the lead from guitar ging to the pre)? Or would that be utterly hazardous for either guitar, preamp, or both?

The RNP will also function as a DI. For a few more dollars though you could get yourself a Groove Tubes Brick:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Brick/

Only slightly more expensive than the RNP and it's 100% class a tube powered. Comes highly recommended.

It looks like the Brick is slightly less expensive than the RNP, actually, although that may be different for overseas. From what I've read in reviews, it seems like the Brick is highly recommended for its DI and instrument preamp functions, but not as highly as a microphone preamplifier. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, my having no real experience with this equipment, but that's what I have found on the internet. One thing to remember about tube equipment is that the tubes will need replacing eventually, just like those on a guitar amp. A good article on preamps:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/microphone_preamps.htm

A lot of people complain that the Brick does not have enough gain. A lot of people will complain about many preamps not having enough gain. Why? Because, they expect that volume equals quality. It simply isn't true. The biggest concern about preamps is headroom. If you have a preamp that will give you plenty of gain but begins to distort early on, it's useless as far as I'm concerned. If you have a preamp which you need to max out the gain but allows you plenty of clean headroom to work with, all the better. You can always compress if need be or carefully and sparingly use a limiter.

Yes tubes need to be replaced but a blown transistor on a surface mounted pc board will not be easily fixed. A good Tube Preamp will last you many, many years if maintained properly.

Electro-Harmonix also has a 12AY7 Tube Preamp. Don't be thrown off by seemingly low gain figures. You can always add gain after the fact. You cannot regain clarity.

http://www.ehx.com/ehx2/Default.asp?q=f&f=%2FCatalog%2F02%5FHome%5FStudio%5FPerformance%5FProducts%2F29%5F12AY7%5FMic%5FPreamp

I'm gonna go with the FMR RNP, since I can't seem to find any UK/Europe stores which stock the Brick or the Electro-Harmonix. Plus it has some great reviews, and my local music store has one I can try and return ifI'm not happy. :)

Feel free to keep posting onthe subject though, as it'd make a good reference for me, certainly, if not for others.

For interest, the lowest UK quote I could find for the FMR RNP is 361.33 quid (or US$ 722.66 :shock: )

Scrybe's 2nd goal - MOVE STATESIDE! :twisted:

Nothing wrong with the RNP. It's a great preamp but if I personally had the choice....

The RNP is a very clean amp, it doesn't color the sound much at all.

For some music (accoustic jazz, for example) that's exactly the right answer. For other applications (electric blues) it will sound wrong. There are loads of applications that need a transparant pre-amp. There are loads of applications that need a little color from the pre-amp. And it's not just genres either -- for example, if you really want to get the sound of that marshal stack just exactly the way you've got it dailed in, then having a transparant pre- might make a lot of sense.

There's a reason serious studios, even serious home studios, tend to have more than one pre-amp on their rack.