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Are these Fender Deluxe amps the same? and other questions

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gnease
(@gnease)
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I still have to check out that amp stand you showed. It's interesting the Peavey stand is $50 but the one at MF is half the price.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040817093032067165153076108931/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/450052/

Did you read the reviews on that MF stand? ... not really glowing endorsements.

-=tension & release=-


   
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corbind
(@corbind)
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Well, since you're "a local" and live only 45 minutes away, sure! I'll take 10% as the promotion fee. :roll:

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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Wes Inman
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Dennis

Just interested in how you liked your new amp at practice? How did you like the tone? Did you get to crank it a little? Did you use Drive or More Drive?

I was thinking about what you had said earlier, how you had your amp up to 4 at home. Now that would be very loud for me, that's what I use at gigs. It's possible the modifications to your amp have brought the volume down a little from a standard HRD. That Jensen speaker may not be as efficient as the stock Eminence. That is not bad. Different speakers have different construction and highlight different frequencies. So that speaker may be slightly less loud. Also, your HRD may have different tubes that are less gain than the stock tubes Fender installs. Bob at Eurotubes has a short article about sustituting 6V6 tubes for the normal 6L6's that he says brings the HRD down to around 30 Watts. This brings the volume down to be more managable at home, and gets it into saturation earlier. It is still plenty loud for gig use. I am going to try some of these tubes soon.

The last thing is you may be used to hearing guitar at very loud volume anyway. That is what your practices sounded like. So perhaps loud to me isn't all that loud compared to what you are used to.

Anyway, please tell us how you like your amp. And remember, it will take you awhile to get to know it, and settings you like.

Wes

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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corbind
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Well, I'm a bad boy. I used my new amp last Friday here at home and loved it but I did not use it again until Band practice last night. I was laughing at having to lug my normal stuff (guitar, RocSak bag with my processor, cords cables, you name it). The past 4 practices I brought my music stand from home. Last night I added the HRDx to the mix and my back seat was full.

Anyway, I got there at 7:30pm so I'd have time to set up. Frank and I cracked open a beer and I got my amp in place (had to move Jim's big Fender bass amp over to make room, ha ha!), music stand set up, picks out, cables run, guitar tuned and was ready. I did not turn the amp on until Joe (the drummer) and Jim (the bassist) showed up at 8:00pm. Joe was installing a CD burner on Frank's computer while Jim tuned up and I was just doing the usual small talk when Joe and Jim arrive.

We start the first song at 8:20 and Frank busts a G string mid-song. He looked at me and I looked down at my guitar to see if I was hitting the wrong chord or something. I did not hear Frank playing so all I heard was my guitar blending with the bass/drums. It was cool because I actually liked what I was hearing and proud that I kept playing the song. Like “the show must go on.” Frank tried to hit some chords but they were atrocious (he uses a guitar with a whammy bar so everything goes out of tune when a string breaks).

Finally the song stops and Frank doesn't know how to change strings on that guitar. He says he has no extra strings and I laid into him how he has to go get like 3 packs plus extra e's. :twisted: Again, I gave him one of my packs and he'll have to buy me a new one later. He started taking the back cover off the guitar so I could change the strings but it was decided to just do it later. He played his electric/acoustic.

Okay, not our momentum is crap. :cry: We did not finish one full song and it was already 8:30. So the second song was Boy so I got to do a little wailing. It's a fun song. That HRDx had some nice sound for sure. Much better than I was used to. Actually, I kept looking back at my amp and the PA to make sure it was my sound. To make sure, I'd barre a chord, play, the release it. Yep, my sound.

I still used my processor and the patches I have for each song but the amp made everything sound much better. I can't even explain why/how. Honestly, I don't care why it sounds better but am just happy that it does the trick.

I played only the clean channel except for about 10 seconds of the intro of one song. See, all my VG-88 patches have all the parameters built in, so when I hit the HRDx overdrive channel 2, it sounded muddy. Frank gave me the ugly look and stopped the song. I explained I was just trying to see if the channel 2 would sound any good. Yea, it does, but not with a processor. So we start the song again and move on.

Jim was pretty enthusiastic during practice and gave me lots of smiles as he danced around with his bass. That made me happy. :P I noticed many times he looked back at my amp and what patch I was using on the songs. I think he was digging the “new” sound. Funny, I don't think I played much better than any night. The amp did it. I must say I felt especially proud (please don't laugh at me) on Bad Moon Risin'. I put the reverb on the HRDx on 3 (most songs I had none on) and used a little different picking technique. Jim kept nodding and giving me the thumbs up between beats. I really, really liked my sound on that song. I'm not arrogant at all, but I was enjoying hearing the sounds I was making. I don't think I can really say it right or make that last sentence sound humble.

As usual, Jim stopped practice but at least not until 9:40. We talked about the Lombard block party we're playing next Saturday (July 28th) and I reminded the guys I would be in Florida next week and not be back until 4pm on the 27th. But I'll be traveling up to Frank's with my new amp once or twice more before my 1,500 mile drive.

Oh yea, I forgot to answer. As of the last song, I had the Volume on 4.5 and Master on 3. Often I would change my volumes before and during songs with my volume pedal. A couple of times I had to turn the volume on the amp up because the volume dials on my guitar were on 9 or 10. Using Joe's Crate 10 watt amp the previous 3 weeks was tough. A few songs I got drowned out with the amp on max and my volume pots. Not with the HRDx. Weird how I could even differentiate my sound from Frank's in the songs. That, to me, is very important because it lets you know what you are adding. I know at many practices I could not really hear me adding. Yea, maybe because we were playing the same chords and he was louder. But that issue is solved.

YEA amp!
8)

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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Wes Inman
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Dennis

That sounds great. In time you will get to know your amp and favorite settings. Sounds like your band liked it too. I am happy for you.

And I know what you mean about actually hearing yourself. The HRD is like that. It cuts through. I have played with many other guitar players, and you can ALWAYS hear it.

That reverb must have been nice. A lot of people complain about the HRD's reverb. They say it's over the top and you can't go past 2.5.
Well, then don't turn it past 2.5! But I don't feel that way at all. I like it.
I turn it way up to 7 or 8 all the time, especially when playing Psychedelic or Surf music. You can sound just like D.ick Dale (censor).

Anyway, keep us informed. Twisted Fingers is next!

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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TwistedFingers
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Yep after my hellish weekend and money out for a broken car. My Ops manager called me asking me to take over antoher site today with a$2 pay raise to boot :D

I'm in the MONEY :)

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- "WOW--What a Ride!"


   
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corbind
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See, broken car but more weekly pay will more than cover the loss. Good deal.

Wes, after next weekend I'm going to do some research on the tubes you've been talking about. I'll buy the tubes and likely have some amp guru put them in and bias. I hate working on cars so I don't think I'll play with amps, either.

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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Wes Inman
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Dennis

All I did was replace the 3 pre-amp tubes. Two reasons- no money, plus no bias needed. You DO need to bias your amp if you replace the power tubes.

I really like these JJ ECC83S's. Much tighter bass. The Drive channels just sound great now.

I may not buy the JJ 6V6 power tubes that Bob on Eurotubes talked about. I was reading on the Unofficial Hot Rod Deluxe site, and it said these tubes could cause problems for the HRD. At the same time, Justin who writes the site said he has JJ 6V6's in his own amp?? The difference is, he knows how to fix his amp if something goes wrong, and I don't. I am really torn because Bob said these tubes cause no problems at all. I will write him some e-mails.

But also, I use my amp for gigging. I really don't want to bring it down to 30 watts. I want clean headroom. So I will probably buy the JJ 6L6GC's.
These are the exact replacements. There is nothing to worry about there.
Even still, when replacing power tubes (even the same tube), bias should be performed.

I am more interested now in getting that Weber 50W Load Dump attenuator. Then I can crank it at home and have plenty of clean volume for gigs.

But still, those 6V6's are supposed to give you great middle tone crunch. What to do??

I am going to bias my amp for the 1st time this weekend, I'll let you know how it comes out. It looks very simple on Justin's site.

Wes

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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corbind
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Cool, let us know how the biasing goes. I still think I'll stay away from that stuff unless it's painfully easy.

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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Mike
 Mike
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Wes,

Has Justin "had" to fix his HRD after he put the JJ6V6's in?

If he "had" to fix it because of the JJ6V6's, Why? What went wrong? How much to replace the parts to fix it? What was the root cause (i.e. Over heat, Mechanical failure etc...etc...)?

After reading about the JJ6V6's on Bob's site, I really like what they could do to my sound and if I had to spend $22 to get me closer to the sound I'm looking for, then I'm their!!!

I'm also curious to see what Joe has to say about the Load Dump.

Accessories, gotta lovem'! :shock: :D


   
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Wes Inman
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Tracker

I am a little confused myself. If you go to the Unofficial Hot Rod Deluxe page, then go to New to Tube Amps? , then How to bias a Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville, then to Which Tubes Can, and Can't I Use? it has all the information there. Justin says they're not a good idea, then he says they're great, you may need mods, but others don't.... He keeps going back and forth on the subject. That worries me a little.

On the other hand, Bob at Eurotubes does this everyday for a living. He is a professional. He says the JJ 6V6's work great in the HRD and there have been no problems. I doubt he would put that so boldly on his site if anyone had complained about any problems. I sure wouldn't. I have gained a lot of respect for him. He will gladly answer any e-mail you send him promptly. Plus, the man knows his tubes, and he knows amplifiers.

In a few weeks when I plan on ordering, I am going to write him an e-mail and ask him about these issues Justin describes on the HRD site.
He is a very honest guy.

I also saw quite a few reviews (he put mine on when I sent a Thank You e-mail), from HRD and DeVille owners that had installed these JJ 6V6's and they were very happy. So that is a real good sign.

Even Justin seems to say the the JJ 6V6's are much hardier and tougher than other makers.

Anyway, maybe send Bob an e-mail. He'll answer you.

Unofficial Hot Rod Deluxe Site

Eurotubes

Wes

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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Mike
 Mike
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Wes,
Which Tubes Do You Recommend?
This is a hard question as styles and the idea of "good tone" varies considerably from person to person. I often get emails asking which tubes I recommend, and the asker almost always wants the best bang-for-buck. I usually point them to a full set of JJ/Tesla tubes available from Eurotubes, though there are more great sources below if interested. If you want clean headroom then stick with 7581As or 6L6GCs, but if you want a lower wattage amp with lots of bluesy breakup then try the JJ 6V6S—I love mine. (For other people's recommendations, read the tube reviews.)

That was written on the Unofficial Hot Rod Deluxe Site.

From what I understood from those articles was - He really liked the JJ 6V6S but, he “heard” not to use them BUT!, he uses them and actually recommends them.

If you asked me, I'd say it sounds like a disclaimer.

What do you think?


   
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Wes Inman
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Tracker

Yes, that is exactly what it sounds like. Justin Holton who created that site is obviously a very bright young man. He is always trying new modifications to the HRD. He frequently gives advice on mods on the Fender Forum. So when you see him giving a warning, it's a little scary.

On the other hand Bob Pletka at Eurotubes is a professional. He is a distributor for JJ Tubes in America. He is well respected. This is what he does for a living. That holds a little more water with me. He wholeheartedly recommends these tubes and mentions nothing about problems or modifications. He doesn't just sell the tubes. He also installs them. If you read his site it is obvious he knows a lot about electronics, tube amps and tubes in particular.

I sent off an e-mail to Bob this evening. I asked him about the negative things Justin wrote on the HRD site. I'll wait on an answer and see what he says.

Another thing that might be confusing is that some makes of these tubes are better than others. There were several on there that said the JJ Tubes were much better than other brands. Also the "S" is new I believe. So really it is a JJ 6V6S. This is supposed to be an improved tube.

I'm rambling. I'll wait for Bob's answer from Eurotubes. I'll make sure to post it here.

I am not worried. I can always go with the JJ 6L6GC tube and just get an attenuator.

Hey, who knows? Maybe we'll know about tubes soon. It's a pretty interesting subject. 8)

Wes

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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corbind
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Wes, you are not rambling. We all need as much info as we can get. This is the archive of guitar knowledge and whatever anyone donates is (as far as I'm concerned) wonderful. I'm following the post like a hawk. I'm sure others will be, too. :D

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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Wes Inman
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Here is the answer I got from Bob Pletka at Eurotubes concerning the JJ 6V6S tubes:

Hi Wes:

If you read down a little farther you will find that Justin reviews the JJ
6V6 and actually recommends it. The JJ 6V6 is not like any other 6V6 and I
have close to 100 HRD customers using these now with NO screen grid resistor
change and also no problems. Most of what Justin says on his page is pretty
accurate and I do differ with him on a few things, but hey I'm just that weird
lookin guy in the goggles who retubes thousands of amps.

Anyway, your friend will find that the JJ 6V6's will drop the power to about
30 watts but 30 watts is still VERY loud and will NOT turn an HRD into a
bedroom amp, what he needs is a 5 watt amp.

Thanks

Bob

I tell ya, I am so impressed with this guy. He is not making any money taking valuable time out of his busy day to answer my questions, but he has never failed to answer any e-mail promptly.

Also, when you read his site you'll see he "tells it like it is". So if he says he has over 100 HRD customers with this tube an no modifications, and no problems, that's good enough for me.

Wes

Eurotubes

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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