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Best Placement For Subs


(@rpmad)
Active Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 8
Topic starter  

Alrighty. I just got 2 Behringer B1800X Subs. I hooked them up in my house and let it rip. From where I was sitting it sounded awesome. But then I got up to get something to drink and what do you know...... NO BASS. Seems that the Bass was only blasting about 10 feet from the sub. Once you went past that point all you heard was the house shaking. No more Panty Dropping BASS!!

I know that speaker placement is critical, but what do you do when you are called out on a gig to a place you have never been before. How do you know where to place the subs so everyone hears the bass?

Please help.

Thanks
Ryan


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(@texastito)
New Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4
 

Our drummer was convinced by a house sound guy once that the best placement for the subs is close to the middle of the stage. Our drummer owns the equipment, and seems that we HAVE to place them there to get the correct amount of bass....anywhere else is unacceptable :D

I honestly can't tell you if it makes that big of a difference because it's been so long since they were placed under the mains, but in any case, you can definately hear it. What I mean with this placement is, the mains are far right and far left of the stage, and the subs are more towrds the middle of the stage on the floor, about 5-6 foot apart.

Another couple of suggestions is to simply boost the bass level either via the faders or with EQ. another option is to invest in a sonic maximizer...they work pretty good for separating highs/lows.


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(@danlasley)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

Check your crossover settings and phasing. You can have the low-end of your mains cancel out the subs. Plus double-check that the two subs aren't wired out of phase, that will cancel out as well.

One simple test is to turn off the mains, and just run the subs. Walk around and see how it sounds. If there are dead spots, check the phase of the wiring. If they sound good, then turn the mains back on. If it sounds worse, then check the crossover and/or phasing between the subs and mains.


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(@leear)
Reputable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 394
 

to go along with what LAZ said, it sounds like phasing issue to me. Another easy fix on that is to swap outputs at your amps. plug output one into output too and vice versa that should solve the problem.. Subs in the center of stage actually do work well. I prefer them under the stacks. ALso you need double the power to push out the low end freq. If the subs say they are 400RMS then you need atleast 800RMS/channel, going to them. Another thing is it usually takes (2) 18"s to cover up (1) 12" horn/combo So if you are running a 15 on top with an 18 on bottom you are probably cancelling out a lot you don't realize how much the mains will cover up. I run (2) 18"s and (1) 12" horn/combo per side of the stage....

Makes for impressive loooking stack too...

No matter where you go.... There You are! Law of Location


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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5599
 

Not to disagree with anyone, but you can place a sub about anywhere and it will work fine. Bass goes every direction unlike your mids and highs in your full-range speakers which are very directional. Ever hear a car go by with the big woofers blasting away? You can hear that thump even if their windows are rolled up, and you can hear the thump after they pass you for a long time. Bass carries every direction.

If you use one sub, place it in the middle, if you use two, place one on each side. They sound best on the floor.

I agree with Dan (Laz) about using a crossover to send your lows to the subs. Those subs also have a switch for bi-amp. In the normal mode the signal goes through a built in crossover. If you use this method, then go from the sub to your full-range speaker. Flip the switch and the signal goes through the woofer of the sub only. Using this method daisy chain the two subs together. You also have to reverse your speakon connectors for this mode.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


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(@kent_eh)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1885
 

you can place a sub about anywhere and it will work fine. Bass goes every direction unlike your mids and highs in your full-range speakers which are very directional.
*snip*
They sound best on the floor.

What Wes said.

I was at a PA seminar that Peavey put on a number of years ago.
Part way thru, the presenter put on a CD that had a solid thumping bass, and asked us to listen for EQ problems. He wandered slowly around the room for a bit, then the bass cut out.
The presenter called out from the back corner of the room, showing us the end of an un-plugged speaker cable in his hand, and pointing out the sub cabinet he was leaning on.
The full PA was in the front of the room, and the sub was in the back, but we couldn't tell until he killed the sub.

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


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(@leear)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 394
 

an easy way to tell if it's phasing. set you subs up on the sides and play a song you know. (preferred bass heavy) Stand about 20 feet in front of a sub, now walk across the room to the other. In the middle of the room if the bass cuts out then returns when you get in front of the other sub. It's a phasing issue.

No matter where you go.... There You are! Law of Location


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(@rpmad)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 8
Topic starter  

I am still getting a dead spot on the dance floor. The room I played in this past Saturday was about 15x30. I set up on the 15 side and had the Mains in the corners and the subs on either side of my DJ table (about 5 feet apart). The bass was really heavy around the perimeters of the room, but the middle of the dance floor was dead. I triple checked everything and all is well with phasing. Meaning that + and - are same on both speakers. I just dont get it. The only thing I can think of is maybe it's the Behringer Subs. Maybe they cannot throw bass very far. I play a lot of dance music that has huge extended bass drops. Kick bass sounds fine because all you have to do is hear the initial kick, not the 2 second drop after that like a hip-hop song.

How about if I stack the two B1800X Subs on top of one another. That would look goofy because my setup would not be even on both sides, but if you think that would fit, I will try it on my next gig.

Thanks
Ryan


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(@kent_eh)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1885
 

See if you can set up earlier than normal at your next gig, give yourself a chance to do a sound check when the room is empty.

As an experiment, stack them normally, and only connect 1 sub, then take a walk around the room.
Then try the other sub without it's partner.

It is possible that it is still a phasing problem if one of the subs has an internal wiring error.

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


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(@rpmad)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 8
Topic starter  

That makes sense. Will do.


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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5599
 

It's not the subs.

Here are two very informative articles that should help.

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SubwooferInfo.htm

http://www.prosoundweb.com/live/articles/jbrusi/pa.php

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


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(@rpmad)
Active Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 8
Topic starter  

Thanks Wes. I read those articles and they answered my questions.

The issue we have is what they call "Tough Titty".

Whereas the problem is unsolvable unless I want to drag around huge stacks of subs and fork out thousands of dollars. Two subs cannot fill an entire room with evenly placed bass. Its just not possible. Its theoretically not even possible with 200 subs. There will always be a dead zone. My clients will just have to dance either closer to the stage, or closer to the walls.

Thanks everyone for your help.


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(@leear)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 394
 

LEEAR: Another thing is it usually takes (2) 18"s to run with a (1) 12" horn/combo. I run (2) 18"s and (1) 12" horn/combo per side of the stage....
Ah hind sight is 20/20.....

No matter where you go.... There You are! Law of Location


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