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Help with Amps

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(@trotskyismyniece)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

I'm in need of a new amp and seeing as how I've only had a 15 watt practice amp I don't think I know enough to make a good decision on how big of an amp I need. I currently play in a 3 piece band guitar, drums, bass and I use my friends Marshal MGDFXwhatever thats 100 watts and is 2X12 with one of the speakers blown out.

The amp is barely loud enough to hear and of course I can't use his amp forever so I need an amp that can hold its own in this setup possibly with another guitar. I am not sure how much "firepower" i need to be able to be heard above the drums and bass (played through some old Traynor tube head and a 2x12 cab from the 60s).

I've been looking mostly at Tube amps and I'm not sure what would be loud enough? a 15-20 watts though a 12" speaker, 40 watts through a 12" speaker, 50 watts 2X12?, I just haven't had much experience with these amps and there really isn't a way for me to test these out. We play mostly heavier stuff, probably about as heavy as Nirvana, using grungey type distortion. So please give me suggestions as to what kind of amp would be sufficient and any suggestions to a particular amp would be great, thanks.


   
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(@trotskyismyniece)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

Oh, and I forgot to mention that if we play shows the largest would be at a small open air type festival with or without being able to mic the amp, and the largest venue is basically an old catholic church with the pews taken out and definately capable of having the amp mic'd. Everything else is basically places the size of someones basement or living room, or a VFW hall or something of the sort.


   
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(@wes-inman)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

Hi trotskyismyniece and Welcome to GuitarNoise.

It's a little difficult to answer your question. It definitely sounds like volume is an important consideration in your case. You sound like you play loud Rock, so you need an amp that can crank it out. You also do not mention your budget.

I would say if you have the money, get something like a Marshall JCM2000 100 head with a 4 X 12 cabinet. This is a classic Rock amp with great tone used by many gigging musicians. But this is expensive. You might pick up one used though for about half price.

Marshall JCM2000 DSL 100/ 1960A Cab

I promise you this package will deliver the goods. :twisted:

Now if this is way over your budget you might consider going solid-state. These amps sound great today, most cannot tell them from a tube amp. I would again go with at least 100 watts with a 4 X 12 cab. Something like this maybe:

B52 100W 4 X 12 Stack

Now, I have never personally heard this amp, but I have read many great reviews, so this seems to be a great amp for a fantastic low price.

You could go with a smaller 1 X 12 or 2 X 12, but really for what it sounds like you need, I would go with a 4 X 12.

Hope this helped.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@trotskyismyniece)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

Sorry about not mentioning the budget. I've mostly been looking at amps like the Peavey Classic or Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, in that price range basically. A Marshall stack is probably way out of my range, even used (I don't really trust used equipment anyways, I've had bad experiences with used stuff). Also, I think a half-stack wouldn't be very practical size wise. I think a combo amp would be sufficient given the small size of my band and venues, I'm just not sure exactly how loud tube amps are. I'm mainly looking for a good all around amp that is loud enough. Distortion is not that big of an issue since I can always invest in a good pedal.


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

If you're playing rock music and plan to get your sound of out a distortion pedal you should (IMHO!) drop the whole tube idea. If you go with tubes, make the most of it and get the distortion mostly from the amp.

Some digital options:
-Line 6 Flextone3/HD147
-Vox Valvetronix AD60/120VT

In general a 30W Vox AC30 would dominate your drummer easily. Hotrods, Peavey classics and all those amps have no problems going loud enough. Solidstate usually requires a bit more power but you really should never ever need more then 100W. If that is not loud enough just mic it, or prepare to piss the first few rows of your audience of with your amp blasting right at them. :lol:


   
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(@trotskyismyniece)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

Thanks, I just don't have too many good opportunities to try out good tube amps at all. All the places around here generally only carry Solid State amps, which of all the solid state amps I've heard the distortion is usually very harsh and cheesy. I've also read a lot of mixed reviews regarding reliability and sound about a lot of solid state amps including the ones you've posted Arjen, and I've had problems with solid state amps I've used. The tube amps seem to generally have better reviews regarding reliability and sound. It kinda makes me mad that I have to take other peoples word for it but I really can only get my hands on about 5 or 6 amp models, but there's not much I can do about it.


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

Well, you could at the very least listen to the soundclips of various amps to get an impression. But if you're situation is what it is then I don't have much of a solution, you really need to try them yourselves. I think it comes down to what you're used to work with. In our rehearsal room we had a full-tube Marshall with a 4x12 cab, but I always brought either my Vox or V-amp along. Joe will probably drag his tube amps with him if the room only had a V-amp. I really don't think any of us can say anything that would make trying them yourself unneeded, unfortunately.


   
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(@wes-inman)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

trotskyismyniece

The Peavey Classic 30 and the Hot Rod Deluxe are plenty loud. I own an HRD and it will handle anything easily. In fact, I played a gig last night with it and never turned the volume past 2. And we are loud.

But you are still talking about $600-700 dollars here.

You could pick up one of these amps used for around $300-400. But I understand how you feel about used gear. I will buy used, but I prefer new.

You could go to Instrument Exchange. They have excellent features like a 48 hour inspection. You can return for any reason and get a 100% refund including shipping and insurance.

Instrument Exchange

I have bought quite a bit of used gear here and have been very happy, never had to return anything, and everything still works well.

Other than that you should just check out as many solid state amps as you can. Many are very impressive today and sound great.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@trotskyismyniece)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

Thanks for the heads up about Instrument Exchange. I've already found a Carvin Nomad 112 that's bidding pretty low right now. I've also been searching for soundclips of different amps. So far, I'm leaning towards the Peavey Classic 30 which is great since I think a local shop has one. I'm pretty sure I can get the owner to lend it to me for a day or so, so I can test it out with the band...unless he doesn't want to make money.


   
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(@crank-n-jam)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1206
 

Those Peavey Classic 30's are awesome amps. I think you'll be very happy with it if you decide to go that route.

"Rock And Roll Ain't Noise Pollution"


   
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(@dagwood)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1024
 

Those Peavey Classic 30's are awesome amps. I think you'll be very happy with it if you decide to go that route.

And the same goes for the HRD. Except if you want a "ROCK" sound you'll need to put a pedal and EQ in the front end. But I thouroughly (sp) enjoy mine :)

Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. - Wernher Von Braun (1912-1977)


   
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(@trotskyismyniece)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

Has anyone been able to check out those new Valve Kings by Peavey? I found out about them awhile ago and they seem pretty elusive, but I just found this post about them and It appears as though they're pretty nice

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=382066&page=1&pp=25&highlight=Peavey+valve

I'm skeptical, but I really really want to get my hands on one of these now.


   
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(@forrok_star)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2337
 

There's plenty of ways to achieve sheer volume. I would think the place to start would be in creating the solid foundation with a good signal chain of great tone and work up from there. If the drummer is to loud then ask him to pipe it down some. If your playing that loud I just don't see where the dynamic's in the songs come into play. I've play'ed many outdoor events and yes they were loud. There's nothing wrong with cranking it up now and then.

Maybe I'm just just betting older but I do know I want the folks listening to my guitar to come back for the second set.

Joe


   
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(@slothrob)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 472
 

The Peavey Classic series are nice giggable amps. See them used with great success all the time in local clubs, with the advantage of being a lot pretty portable. Good Rock sound but with a decent clean if you want to use some pedals or play a little clean rhythm.
The Traynor amps are comparable if you are lucky enough to have a local dealer.
The Fender Deluxe Reverb is a great amp with a good rock sound (Neil Young's probqably the classic example used to describe a Deluxe) for a bit more, $800 or a litttle less if new. It will overdrive slightly easier than the Hot Rod Deluxe, due to it's 22 watts and voicing, but still be plenty loud for a club sized venue. It also punches through really well. The Hot Rod Deluxe will give you more clean headroom if you want to get your sound more from pedals than from the amp.
With an efficient speaker, a 15 watt tube amp will make your ears bleed. My ears were ringing for days after trying to play a 12 watt Princeton Reverb at saturation one Saturday. People gig 15 wat Blues Jr and Pro Jr amp all the time at loud blues jams, they just don't play them clean at those volumes. Which is what makes them so nice.


   
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(@trotskyismyniece)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

Alright, I just went to my local guitar center and tried out just about everything they had and here's what I thought:

Fender HRD - probably about my favorite amp I tried, sounded really nice clean, I liked the distortion but... maybe I'm overracting but I don't think it had enough gain

Crate Palmino - Sounded great but the overdrive channel sounded was really harsh, after awhile its like nails on a chalkboard

B-52 - ST -6012 60W tube amp - sounded great, awesome rectified distortion, really roared, but it was out of my price range, and it didnt have the nicest clean...no reverb either, but i'd say its worth the money.

B-52 - LG 412V Half Stack, really nice for a solid state amp, nice clean, reverb is better than I have heard in reviews, distortion, well its solid state, maybe its my bias against SS, but it sounded like a Buzzsaw (like most SS amps do to me), kinda nasal and a little undefined, not horrible but kind of meh, probably best for punk or newer metal.

Vox AD100VT, Behringer V-Tone GMX 2X12 , Line 6 Spider II 212. All these modeling amps seemed about the same. I liked the Line 6 the least, the higher gain settings were pretty bad, really fuzzy and bad sounding, The Vox seemed muddy even after messing around with the EQ a lot. The Behringer was sort of the same way, it probably sounded the best but it still didn't sound that great. I probably am not giving these amps too much of a chance, seeing as how I couldn't really play them too loud and I didn't have time to figure them out and set them up to my liking.

I also tried the Classic 30 and Classic 50 4X10 at my local guitar place, they both seemed nice but no a lot of gain, and the gain didn't sound that great.

So thats my analysis of the amps I've tried. I am really picky about everything in general, so It is going to be hard for me to find the sound I like unfortunately. I guess I'm officially a tone freak because I just couldn't find the sound I like with that variety of amps. I don't really play too much stuff with that rectified metal sound, but i like to have that option ,and man it sure does feel good to ring out powerchords with that distortion roaring. So maybe my best bet is the Fender HRD, and if I need
that extra gain I could aways use a pedal.


   
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