Monitor mix sounds fuzzy

I never liked the sound of a line out so I would recomend the mic. Are ;you somehow overdriving the input of the mixer? Does the chanel you are using have a trim knob or are you lighting up the meters too much? Probably not but the effect you describe sounds like solid state distortion to me. Again, I like the sound of a mic.

I assume that you have a singer - who sings through a mike. Borrow the mike and see if that cures your problem.

Do you always use the same channel? Could it have been damaged?

Are you somehow overdriving the input of the mixer? Does the chanel you are using have a trim knob or are you lighting up the meters too much?
Definitely a possible culprit. You may have the input gain on the mixer turned up too high and you're clipping the signal at the board.

Do you have a line-pad switch on the mixer? If not, and if you're using 1/4" inputs at the mixer, an impedance-matching plug can make a huge difference.
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-AUD-CP8201

the problem is that in the monitor mix the guitar sounds very fuzzy (kinda like putting a distortion pedal through a cheap amp) - even an uneffected clean channel doesn't sound very nice.

You refer to the monitor mix . . . What does the FOH mix sound like?

Thanks for all the replies!
You refer to the monitor mix . . . What does the FOH mix sound like?
The FOH is the guitar amp - a VOX AC50, so it sounds nice (in my opinion :P - but thats a debate for another time!) - although the guitar is put through the desk, it's not pushed out of the FOH speakers.

I will try the impedance-matching plug as that seems to be the easiest option for me at present. In an ideal world, i would like to not have to mic the amp... at the moment, when i want to have a little warmup before i start playing i can simply disconnect the speaker from my amp and i have guitar "in my head" that no one else can hear... i like that - and i would like it a whole lot more if it didn't sound crappy!

The gain is as low as it can go on the guitar channel on the desk, the amp has a seperate output volumn knob on the back - i just set that and then use the desk to mix it in.

This is the desk we are using if that helps anyone at all.

I guy at a studio i record at suggested a speaker simulator - he said that simulating a speaker between the amp's line out and the desk might resolve the situation - anyone have any comments on that? - i've never used a "speaker simulator" before so i don't really know anything about them.

Thanks again for all the replies!

Scott

I used to use a Whirlwind Imp 3 DI box that took a signal from the amplifier output and ran it to the mixer . I always hated the way it sounded until I started messing around with the channel's EQ . It seemed to create an unnatural emphasis of the treble frequencies . To solve the problem I turned the treble way down , I mean WAY DOWN , and it sounded much better . The fact of the matter was that it seemed a really radical adjustment to make , but it worked . Good luck !

Thanks for all the replies!
You refer to the monitor mix . . . What does the FOH mix sound like?
The FOH is the guitar amp - a VOX AC50, so it sounds nice (in my opinion :P - but thats a debate for another time!) - although the guitar is put through the desk, it's not pushed out of the FOH speakers.

I will try the impedance-matching plug as that seems to be the easiest option for me at present. In an ideal world, i would like to not have to mic the amp... at the moment, when i want to have a little warmup before i start playing i can simply disconnect the speaker from my amp and i have guitar "in my head" that no one else can hear...
Scott

First - stop disconnecting your speaker. Running your tube amp with no load will damage your amp if it hasn't already.

It's not likely an impedance problem, and throwing money at it won't solve it.

I asked about the FOH sound for a reason. EVERYTHING you described points at a gain staging problem between the point where the guitar signal leaves the amp and comes out the monitor speakers/earbuds. Clean FOH guitar from the PA mains would mean the problem is isolated to the monitor signal chain - between the monitor outs on the board and the monitor speakers. Here's some things to check to trouble shoot . . .

Use an UN-balanced instrument cable from the amp line out to the channel line in if the cable run is less than 25 feet (7.62 meters). If the cable run is longer, use a short instrument cable to a DI box, then a mic cable into the mic input of the channel. Distance matters.

Leave the EQ flat for troubleshooting. The last thing you want right now is a bunch of filters affecting the signal path.

1) amp line output level: is it adjustable? If so, lower it down as low as it will go and see if the problem goes away. If it DOES, raise it slowly to see where it comes back and MARK the setting in red, and back off until the problem goes away again and leave it at that setting. If the output is not adjustable . . . it's not a headphone output is it? Those aren't line level or line impedance outs. The output level will vary with volume and gain settings and will easily overdrive a line input.

2) Make sure you're using the line inputs and NOT the insert jacks. They're wired for different purposes, and line inputs in the inserts will do odd things.

3) check the pre-fader sound. That board has a switch for each input. if pre-fader is clean, then you have the channel fader too high. Bring it down all the way, set your gain per the manual's instructions, take the pre-fader switch off, and raise the channel volume slider until you hit the desired volume. If pre-fader is fuzzy and you've made the checks in item one up there, your gain is too high. Bring the channel fader down all the way, set your gain level per the manual's instructions, and bring the fader back up until you have the desired volume.

These are the three most likely culprits . . .

Check these things and let me know if they solve the problem.

Check these things and let me know if they solve the problem.

<sigh>
:roll:

Hmm... people are a little impatient here! :)

I haven't replied recently because I had a baby and haven't had any time to sort anything out.

Because disconnecting the speaker was no longer acceptable, i went the mic route and everything now sounds good (as i expected it to). By keeping the amp level relatively low, it also means that it's a lot easier to control the overall mix via the desk.

Thanks for all your replies.

Hmm... people are a little impatient here! :)

I haven't replied recently because I had a baby and haven't had any time to sort anything out.

Because disconnecting the speaker was no longer acceptable, i went the mic route and everything now sounds good (as i expected it to). By keeping the amp level relatively low, it also means that it's a lot easier to control the overall mix via the desk.

Thanks for all your replies.

I know I'm impatient :oops: Quite often, people will ask a question, you try to help them and they simply disappear after things are sorted out, with no feedback on whether you did them any good. I'm glad that wasn't the case with you. Congratulations on the new baby!

Now, back to the problem you were having. The band I'm in uses the exact same mixer. We re-created the exact same problem you were having. it was absolutely the line in being overdriven.

Apparently, the line in on that board is set up for very low levels, I'm assuming -10db consumer level inputs. It's most likely intended for something like a piezo pickup on an acoustic guitar. The pro level +4db output thats in most guitar amps with a line out is simply more than the input can handle.

Solutions:

1) mike the amp, which is what you've done
2) use a direct box to convert the line level signal to a microphone level signal. I use a DOD 260 that's a bazillion years old (and looks it) for this.

The part in your quote that I've highlighted is exactly why I gig with a 5 watt amp. My "high-power" gig amps are 15 watts. Using those itty-bitty amps and using a DI or mikes on them lets me play clean, or get "brewtal" levels of distortion without peeling the paint off the walls

I know I'm impatient :oops: Quite often, people will ask a question, you try to help them and they simply disappear after things are sorted out, with no feedback on whether you did them any good. I'm glad that wasn't the case with you.

I do know exactly what you mean, i spend quite a lot of my time helping people on software development forums, and theres nothing more frustrating than never knowing if a proposed solution actually works :D

Thanks for all your help, micing the amp works really well so im happy with that solution. I have just bought an audix cab grabber (instead of the freestanding mic stand i am using at the moment) so im looking forward to gigging with that next weekend.

Thanks again everyone! Im off now to have a few more years of sleepless nights! :P

Scott