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rparker
(@rparker)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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We're trading an acoustic drum set that we pretty much don't use due to my ear issue for an electronic drum set. My wife will be using them initially with just a headphone. Sometime soon, though, we will need to get an amp of some sort so that we may play together.

I've done a bit of research to that end. There are Electronic Drum Kit amplifiers. I found a couple forums that have people using Keyboard amps as a preference. I also see that some Keyboard Amps are marketed as being "Keyboard/PA-System" as a dual purpose kind of thing. I would not mind something with PA capabilities. Something that I could plug a mic into or even my Boss GT-10 guitar processor. Are all of these things pretty much the same?

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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Blue Jay
(@blue-jay)
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I can be brief if I try. :shock: :lol:

Nice going, getting electronic drums! Enjoy. :D

I like the keyboard amp idea, and an AB/Y box for all your needs.

Some very reasonable options http://www.google.com/products?q=ab/y+box&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DACA_en-GB&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=GizaSrDYKIaMMcOtwN0H&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CDIQrQQwCg

Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.


   
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Moonrider
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We're trading an acoustic drum set that we pretty much don't use due to my ear issue for an electronic drum set. My wife will be using them initially with just a headphone. Sometime soon, though, we will need to get an amp of some sort so that we may play together.

I've done a bit of research to that end. There are Electronic Drum Kit amplifiers. I found a couple forums that have people using Keyboard amps as a preference. I also see that some Keyboard Amps are marketed as being "Keyboard/PA-System" as a dual purpose kind of thing. I would not mind something with PA capabilities. Something that I could plug a mic into or even my Boss GT-10 guitar processor. Are all of these things pretty much the same?

For keyboard / drum kit amps use the same basic rule of thumb as a PA - Get as much clean power as you can afford. You might even want to consider a small PA as an option.

Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.

Moondawgs on Reverbnation


   
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kent_eh
(@kent_eh)
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Or perhaps start with a powered monitor wedge.
If you're building towards a PA, you'll need monitors at some point anyway.

Since you are putting drums thru it, you will want a fairly large cone for that low freq kick drum feel.

I've seen these used as drum monitors in the past, but that may be a bit overkill for your application :wink: . (I've also used them as PA Mains on several occasions)

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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rparker
(@rparker)
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Well, we made the deal. She's quite pleased.

I like that 1000 watt Amp. That'll change a heart beat, I bet. :lol:

OK, so a PA will work then from what yooze guys are saying. Cool. I think I'll aim my search for those all in one powered speaker/PA things. There is one that is local & used for $180. http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-KX1200-Keyboard-AmpPA-System?sku=701761 Is this the type of thing we're supposed to be looking at?

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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Blue Jay
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It looks good for the money Roy. Except it is discontinued and I don't know the price new. Probably not too expensive.

I like the the 15" woofer, the midrange, and the tweeter will be good for snare, cymbals , hi-hat or bells.

If by chance you miss it, a Peavey KB 300 is sure to come along, and will take a pounding. :D

Here's one already, and you can check specs etc. http://www.musicgoround.com/detail.aspx?id=721486

Good pic, 3 channels, you could use a 1/4" mike

Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.


   
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rparker
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I could not get that second link going, but I like the looks of that Peavy. Single, all in one unit. Space is a consideration in this room.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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Blue Jay
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I could not get that second link going, but I like the looks of that Peavy. Single, all in one unit. Space is a consideration in this room.

Okay Roy, I captured it to one of my Photobuckets and will try to show it permanently as if it is mine. Well, the image is now mine, for as long as I want or can have it. This particular Peavey is or was for sale. And we do have one the same, it is my son's for multiple synthesizers, effects, and electric piano -- we think it is just fine, and probably good forever? :shock:

Sure, space is an issue. It's kind of big, but not as spread out as monitors with amps. Good luck to you and your wife. 8)

Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.


   
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colin rp
(@colin-rp)
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The behringer should do. We have small kustom. We don't have electronic drums. Other things you might want to consider with the p.a. are do you want to sing together? do you want to jam with more people etc...how many mics/instruments/things might you want to plug in Behringer has a rep for decent p.a. systems. I quickly browsed musicians friend and there are alot of options in that $ range so weigh all the other possibilities b/c there are quite a few choices. Oh yeah good warranties are a definite plus on these things. It definitely saved us alot of grief.


   
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rparker
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Plenty of room for something like that, Blue Jay.

Good points to think about colin. Tons and tons of choices and ways to go.

Right now she's got either a set of headphones or my son's 15W bass amp, which is enough to know she's playing drums and such. Does buy us a bit of time.

The local Craig's List is pretty sparse. One good looking deal, but we were too late. A couple other things that look fair enough, but aside from a beat up Behringer Power Speaker, nothing is current. I'm a little nervous about used for some reason. Just about everything I saw was kind of ragged looking and discontinued.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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rparker
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Before I bother you with more questions, I do want to thank everyone for answering. While the guitar staff at GC do have a sense of what's going on in their world, the live sound staff does not. At least not when I've been there asking questions. "duh, I didn't know you could hook up a guitar processor to an amp. You sure 'bout that? You might want to go ask them down in Guitars." I kid you not. It took 3 people to help me find a USB mic one time.....and that's with me saying "right behind you, it says......" Ugh!
For keyboard / drum kit amps use the same basic rule of thumb as a PA - Get as much clean power as you can afford. You might even want to consider a small PA as an option.

Would a powered cabinet be considered a small PA, or at least on that line?

A few questions as I try to clear all this up in my head. Some of these amps push out a ton of wattage. Sure, I know it takes more wattage to push out low freqs. If I got like the Behringer 212 powered speaker/PA that's 400W, will that be impossible to listen to at very low volumes?

I see some interesting options. A couple of new model Behringers and some interesting looking powered cabinets. The keyboard amps have digital effects and such, but I'm really not too sure that'd be useful. Are you paying for sound quality by going with the powered cabinet? Same price, more than double the power. I don't need power and may never need it. However, maybe I will someday. Who knows. There is a keyboard amp $50 higher that gets me almost as much power as that powered cab does, and has all those DFX things. Then the advice Moonrider offers and we talk about it all the time with electric guitars, get the most clean power I can afford. That would mean get a powered cab, right?

Keyboard Amps:
90W Behringer Keyboard Amp, 3channel, DFX for $249 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-ULTRATONE-K900FX-Keyboard-Amp-PA-System-103643185-i1171331.gc

180W Behringer Keyboard Amp, 4 channel, DFX for $299 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-ULTRATONE-K1800FX-Keyboard-Amp-PA-System-103643268-i1169233.gc

Clean Keyboard Amps
Peavy KB 3 60W for $299 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-KB-3-Keyboard-Amp-104007588-i1154530.gc

Peavy KB 2 40W for $249 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-KB-2-Keyboard-Amp-104007562-i1154528.gc

Powered Speaker/PA
200W Harbinger, 3 channel 15" for $249 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Harbinger-APS15-15--Powered-PA-Speaker-105122774-i1430143.gc

400W Behringer Powered Speaker for $279 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-EUROLIVE-B212A-Active-Loudspeaker-104896766-i1169302.gc

Thanks again folks!

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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cnev
 cnev
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Ok I may be way off here and I'm sure someone can correct me but why don't you just buy a PA system? This is for the set of electronic drums you're buying right? Then you can plug in Mics, etc.

I bought a BEHRINGER PMP2000 PA a couple years ago and it's a bit under powered for the band but it would be more than enough for what you will use it for.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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rparker
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Ok I may be way off here and I'm sure someone can correct me but why don't you just buy a PA system? This is for the set of electronic drums you're buying right? Then you can plug in Mics, etc.

I bought a BEHRINGER PMP2000 PA a couple years ago and it's a bit under powered for the band but it would be more than enough for what you will use it for.

Money and space. Also would be nice to not have a couple extra cables laying around, but that's a nit. That unit you have sells for $650. I'd love to stay under $200, but have upped what I am looking at to $300.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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Moonrider
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Would a powered cabinet be considered a small PA, or at least on that line?

Yes. Some are even designed to be used with multiple inputs at one time
A few questions as I try to clear all this up in my head. Some of these amps push out a ton of wattage. Sure, I know it takes more wattage to push out low freqs. If I got like the Behringer 212 powered speaker/PA that's 400W, will that be impossible to listen to at very low volumes?

Unlike guitar amps, in which you generally want some degree of harmonic distortion, a PA or keyboard amp has the goal of reproducing an exact replica of the input source. As you approach the maximum power before clipping, every amp will generate a higher amount of harmonic distortion. Once you get to the point where the output signal consists of 0.1% total harmonic distortion (THD), most people will hear a noticible "fuzziness" to the sound.

The main goal of my rule of thumb for PA's and Keyboard amps ( Buy as much clean power as you can afford) is to encourage you not to settle for "enough" raw power, but to think in terms of headroom - "Will I have enough power in reserve so the amp doesn't clip and blow the speakers when Ms. P does that awesome floor tom flam while I do my Roger Daltrey 'Won't Get Fooled Again' scream." You'll also get far more accurate reproduction (less THD) by using a 1000 watt amp on "1" versus a 100 watt on 8. You want the amp to be loafing along 99.99% of the time.

You can always turn an overpowered amp down for comfortable listening levels.

Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.

Moondawgs on Reverbnation


   
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rparker
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Ahhhh, that pretty much clears the power issue up. Thanks for that great explaination, moonrider. Thanks very, very ,much.

Makes sense now what a few have said about 'just going PA'. I do favor a one piece unit due to spacial considerations and the fact that we'll not be playing out anytime soon....if ever. The downside, of course, is little to build on if I go single unit. It's not a prohibitive dollar amount to have to 'eat' if I ever do need bigger. Heck, I'd just put it in the office with me and retire the little Fender that I run my GT-10 through.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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