Placement of Effects Pedals in Chain?

Mike if your up for an in depth read check this out Effects Chain. Those Dano pedals are okay but after 9 months I cracked the housing on two of mine so I replaced them with something more beefy. Sorry :oops: that was for keyboards try this
Effects for guitar Or this More on Chains or lastly this:

.The standard ideal sequence of effects pedals:

wah
compression
eq (optional)
distortion (includes limited post-distortion eq)
echo
reverb

Ideally, to avoid beats, delay-derived effects should go after the mic'd speaker, as though adding in echo and reverb at the mixing console:

wah
compression
eq (optional)
distortion
eq (from distortion tone controls, or amp's preamp)
power tubes, output transformer, speaker, mic
echo
reverb

This setup enables heavy power-tube saturation with no beats -- a very pure tone. Then you can add tons of crazy time-based effects once the Basic Tone is secured.

I think that what "straight into the amp" extremists really hate the most is beats caused by running echo through saturated power tubes. Wah sounds perfectly smooth and clear -- by nature, it can't cause beats before a distortion stage.

Compression after wah seems like a great sequence. Another good placement idea is compression after mic'd speaker.

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At 08:57 AM 8/23/97 -0600, eric j anderson wrote:
>Just bought my first tube amp. I use an Ibanez Ghostrider with DiMarzio Norton and DiMeola Model humbuckers+ plugged into a Digitech FX7 multieffects box into my "new" Ampeg VS503 Tube amp.

>How would you rate the tools I'm using and can you make suggestions for getting the most out of the set?

I don't know that equipment in detail. For typical equipment, you can do either chain:

Setup A: multifx before the amp's input
o multifx unit:
- programmable compression
- programmable distortion
- programmable eq
- time-based fx
o distortion stage in the amp - noise-free and simple [sounds awful if preceded by time-fx]
o tone controls (eq) in the amp - noise-free and simple
o fx loop in the amp - not used
o power tubes (essentially another saturation stage, which hates time-fx)
o guitar speaker, mic
o mixing board, with time-based effects in the board's fx loop

OR
Setup B: multifx in the amp's fx loop
o distortion stage in the amp - noise-free and simple
o tone controls (eq) in the amp - noise-free and simple
o fx loop in the amp - contains multifx unit:
- programmable compression
- programmable distortion
- programmable eq
- time-based fx
o power tubes (essentially another saturation stage, which hates time-fx)
o guitar speaker, mic
o mixing board, with time-based effects in the board's fx loop

In Setup B, it's impossible to do the muddy chain of time-fx and then distortion. However, it's still possible to do time-fx and then *power tube* saturation, which would generate excessive muddiness if the power tubes are highly saturated (distorted, clipped).

Even if you avoid time-based fx before a *preamp* clipping stage, you still have to beware of doing heavy time-based effects followed by heavy *power tube* (and speaker) saturation, or else you'll get muddiness/beats. The only way to combine heavy power tube saturation with heavy time-based effects is to put the time-fx in the mixing board's fx loop -- because this way, the clear, simple amp tone has been safely established all the way to the guitar speakers, before introducing the sonic complexity of the harmonic beats and clashing overtones inherent in echo-derived effects. It seems that linear amplification stages can handle these harmonic complex beats, but nonlinear (that is, saturated) amplification stages garble these beats unmusically.

Thanks for the link...as for breaking them I'm not worried. I don't gig and I am ine my socks when I practice so I seriously doubt I'll be cracking these pedals.

That site you gave me looks nice...I'll be spending some time reading this one!

Thanks

And some good info from effects modifying wizard Robert Keeley, complete with a mnemonic: http://www.robertkeeley.com/faq.php#Effect%20Order .

Here's an example of one setup I often.

Guitar-> Wireless-> Equalizer-> Compressor-> Expander-> Distortion-> Equalizer-> Noise gate-> Equalizer-> AES (Acoustic Environment Simulator)-> level-> Equalizer-> Power amp-> Attenuator-> speakers.

There are times and different patch's that include other units like an excitor, Digital Contour control, Envolope filter, digital delay, reverb, harmonizer, octivider, tremolo, Low Pass Filter, High Pass Filter, Digital delay, reverb, the list goes on. Some are even set to were they are run from off a line out or a 1 volt out from the processors, these would be like the Volume pedal, wah, which then run into their own amps. To which I use five amps, one dummyload, four attenuators, and numerous speaker cabinets. Most effects are controlled with a Midi switcher to allow me to add or substract anyone of them in or out of the signal chain and were in the chain they will be. Everything depends on the sound I need to produce. The best part is I love what I do.

Being creative, experimenting, and playing. If I can't plug my guitar into it I'm not interested.

Joe

Being creative, experimenting, and playing. If I can't plug my guitar into it I'm not interested.

Joe

That's the mood I am in lately. Just looking for diferent sounds both new and from artists I like.

I am not sure what some of those pedals you mentioned do...I know what the noise gate & Attenuator do. But what is an Expander, AES (Acoustic Environment Simulator) (I'm assuming to make an electric sound acoustic?), and level do? Also, I figured a volume pedal increases the volume but does it do it at the amp level or is this more from switching between rhythms & solos?

As for the midi switcher I thought about this but I didn't know how it would turn the effects on or off individually? That would be a great tool to have since it could control the pedals AND the patches on my V-Amp at the same time.

Thanks

Hey Mike, just wondering why you got the Daddy-O rather than the Fab Overdrive.

I was ordering some stuff yesterday and needed another $15 in gear to get free shipping, so I popped one of those Fabs into my cart. Pretty smart, spending $15 to save $6 ... :D But the clips sure do make these cheapies sound good.

Hey Mike, just wondering why you got the Daddy-O rather than the Fab Overdrive.

I was ordering some stuff yesterday and needed another $15 in gear to get free shipping, so I popped one of those Fabs into my cart. Pretty smart, spending $15 to save $6 ... :D But the clips sure do make these cheapies sound good.

I got the Daddy-O based on Wes's review of it. It has 3 tone controls instead of just one. Plus, from what I gathered it can almost double as a distortion pedal as well if set right. The tone is supposed to be warmer as well. I have the Pastrami Overdrive however I have it after my distortion and I just read that it should be before so that might a big difference. All the reviews on the Daddy-O are excellent. But I did consider the FAB model for a while. I like the FAB Chorus & Distortion pedals except I don't like the stomp button...I like the round ones on the mini pedals better. Just easier for me to turn on/off.

Speaking of experimenting, didn't Jimi put his wah after the distortion once in a while? Non-standard to be sure, but clever.

Speaking of experimenting, didn't Jimi put his wah after the distortion once in a while? Non-standard to be sure, but clever.Yeah, some of the guys who write suggestions on pedal placement make a point that "the first rule is that there are no rules." (I think Keeley is one who says that, maybe differently than I expressed it.)
Jimi would definitely have been one to experiment, which might explain the slightly different info found at http://www.analogman.com/faq.htm#jimi and http://mywebpages.comcast.net/loudfast/writeweb/mgun.htm .

If you think a certain order sounds good, go with it. 8)

Speaking of experimenting, didn't Jimi put his wah after the distortion once in a while? Non-standard to be sure, but clever.Yeah, some of the guys who write suggestions on pedal placement make a point that "the first rule is that there are no rules." (I think Keeley is one who says that, maybe differently than I expressed it.)
Jimi would definitely have been one to experiment, which might explain the slightly different info found at http://www.analogman.com/faq.htm#jimi and http://mywebpages.comcast.net/loudfast/writeweb/mgun.htm .

If you think a certain order sounds good, go with it. 8)

This is why I asked because my overdrive just didn't sound right. I also read that sometimes volume and wah pedals are in a "chain by themselves" seperate from other effects...I guess the combinations are endless.

I'll tell you this Daddy-O pedal is HUGE compared the other Danelectro pedals. When you see it online it looks like the same size as the other ones...This thing is gigantic and is made of metal compared to the plastic on the other models. As for the sound, I played with it for about 20 minutes and it sound AWESOME! You have to get this pedal if you want good overdrive! I got the most awesome Tony Iomni sound for Paranoid with it in only a few minutes of tweaking!

In the picture you'll also see my Behringer Amp Selector pedal. This thing is SWEET as well. I have it set basically outside the chain. My guitar goes into the input and then one output goes to the the V-Amp the other to my pedals. The V-amp and pedals then go to my mixer to 2 seperate channels. This way I can keep my V-Amp on my favorite clean setting and my pedals something different. However I think I might need a noise gate. There is some hissing when I am on the V-Amp if I keep the distortion or overdrive pedals turned on. I believe a noise gate should handle that, right?

I will also be posting an extra Danelectro Surf & Turf Compressor pedal in the Swap Meet section in a few minutes. I ordered a new one from eBay about 4 weeks ago and it never came so I won another used one from eBay. PayPal refunded my money on the first one since I never received it. Well it showed up yesterday and today the used one came in!

I own both the Danelectro Fab Tone and the Daddy-O overdrive pedal. They are very different pedals. The Fab Tone is great for getting modern Grunge type distortions or Metal. I has lots of gain, even turned all the way down it has lots of distortion. It is a pretty awesome sounding pedal.

The Daddy-O is an overdrive pedal. You cannot get Grunge or Metal out of it, but boy, you can get everything else. You can turn the gain down and just use it as a boost pedal for solos. The tone controls work better than any other pedal I've ever owned. You can get just about any kind of tone out of this pedal. You can get AC/DC type crunch perfect. You can get Punk. This pedal is very versatile.

I do not know about the newer, cheaper Dano pedals. I like the older, large pedals.

As for construction, I have owned many, many pedals over the years. Every single one of my Dano pedals (I think I own at least 7) works perfect. I have used them for gigs, they have been kicked and had beer spilled on them. I don't abuse my gear, but they get used heavy. My Dano's are ALL still working. I have owned Boss, Digitech, Arion, DOD and many others. None of them have lasted as long as my Danos. They will last forever if you take care of them.

An "Acoustic Environment Simulator" is used to create certain sounds associated with different room acoustic's. Everything in a room can effect sound waves, like hardwood, concrete, carpet floors, smooth or padded walls, drapes over the windows or just hung over the walls to absorb sound. Some folks my think that somethings I post about things that are a bit beyond when it comes to playing guitar. Its that going beyond that will put you in a leage of your own when it comes to creating a tone that folks will Idolize and try to imitate.

If being at the top of your game when comes to guitar playing you need to work from outside the box and take things beyond.

Joe

An "Acoustic Environment Simulator" is used to create certain sounds associated with different room acoustic's. Everything in a room can effect sound waves, like hardwood, concrete, carpet floors, smooth or padded walls, drapes over the windows or just hung over the walls to absorb sound. Some folks my think that somethings I post about things that are a bit beyond when it comes to playing guitar. Its that going beyond that will put you in a leage of your own when it comes to creating a tone that folks will Idolize and try to imitate.

If being at the top of your game when comes to guitar playing you need to work from outside the box and take things beyond.

Joe

AHHH......Then I guess my Behringer Virtualizer pro is in that category. It can be set for all different room sizes and acoustics..ie. Cathedral, concert, small, etc. I haven't used it for much more than adding extra reverb & delay.

Thanks