OK - I have been on a TONE QUEST for the last few months and have put together the correct pickups for my sound/texas Blues Crunch tone(Fender Custom shop Texas Specials) and amp (original 66 blackface Fender Bassman).
Now - I have been told by many that I really need an Ibanez Ts-808 or Ts9 with the analogman mod to make it a TS808 which is a tube overdrive stompbox.
But - I have also read by several studio and amp pro's that to really overdrive your tube amp you need a powersoak /attenuator and then using the EQ in both the amp and guitar you get the overdrive you need at lower levels of volume.
QUESTION: are these 2 completely seperate issues/systems which achieve 2 different sounds which together will enhance the overall tube characteristics - or will the 2 systems mentioned above really achieve the same result and ultimately i really only need one or the other?
Seems to me the powersoak is a far better and most accurate answer if the 2 do the same thing - as you would have a real control on the overall watts output and will make your amp /tubes last alot longer.
:?
They do very different things and you'll find that most blues/rock players using tube amps will have both in their signal chain (at least when playing around the house -- on stage they may lose the attenuator because they can push the amp in that environment -- though many a sound guy will tell you they'd rather have you keep the amp at low db's and let the house sound system do it's own job.)
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST
May I ask the stupid newbie question? Whats an attenuator and what does it do?
Dont mean to steal your thread but I have seen that word a few times now and I cant figure it out.
Geoo
“The hardest thing in life is to know which bridge to cross and which to burn” - David Russell (Scottish classical Guitarist. b.1942)
Oh, I doubt an attenuator will have your tubes last longer: you're cranking them regardless. If you have a ncie amp I'd get the attenuator first to get the most out of your amp, and then add a booster later.
I have looked into attenuators in the past. my guitar tech says to stay away from them;
they wear out tubes and amps rematurely,he said. ( he has strong biases and opinions about alot of things so I take a grain of salt there)
I adore the tubescreamer. so I am biased.
my guitar tech says to stay away from them;
they wear out tubes and amps rematurely,he said.
Nonsense.
This is from THD:
When you play continuously at full output, you cause your tubes to age more quickly than they would at lower volumes. Using a Hot Plate® will maintain the life of your tubes at exactly the same rate, no more or less, as when you play straight through the speaker.
However, playing without an attenuator will wear out your eardrums prematurely ... :wink:
Whats an attenuator and what does it do?
Check this out: http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/hotplate_faq.htm
"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."
Well, in a way they do wear out tubes faster, because attenuators allow you to drive them harder then you'd normally could. Ofcourse, by that reasoning cranking an amp under any circumstances is bad, but it is still a somewhat viable opinion. :)
Arjen is right - using an attenuator will wear out your tubes quicker BUT so will running your amp at the same settings without the attenuator.
Run your car in second gear at 5000 revs on a set of rollers all day and you'll get the same engine wear as if the car was doing the same on a race track.
The wear doesn't come from the attenuator, it comes from the hammer you're giving it.
I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN
that's what my tech says.
so attenuator wears tubes.
cranked amp wears tubes.
tubescreamer does not. plus it gives you incredible usable tones.
my vote is for tubescreamer. :)
How do you light your house? :D
How do you light your house? :D
5KW Tungsten bulbs, run through an attentuator - gives me the same light as a 60W bulb. :lol: :lol:
I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN
Doesn't a tube screamer (or any OD pedal) just boost and clip the guitar's signal going into the preamp stage? Does it do anything else? Will it sound good at low non-attenuated amp volumes? How about through a SS amp? Will it sound significantly different (better) when played through a saturated tube power amp? If so, and if one wants tube power amp saturation at reduced volumes, then doesn't an attenuator help achieve that? In the "quest for tone" aren't these completely separate things that might, in fact, work extremely well together?
Jus' wondering.
"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."
I haven't really noticed tubes wearing out that much sooner. I've been overdriving tube amps into dummyloads and attenuators for years. Not having proper ventalation and the amp getting to hot has taken out tube faster than driving them hard for me. Thats why I've installed fans to pull air through the rack case's. Once you fall in love with the tone of driving a tube hard, you'll forget all about them wearing out and always keep a few spare sets of tubes on hand.
Tube amps, equalizers, attenuators should be high on a guitarist list of must have units.
joe
As for the original question about attenuators vs. TS-808
You usually need to set the tube amp at about 3-5 in order to get near clipping, which will give you rock distortion or blues depending upon which pickup you select. That's pretty loud for most tube amps, especially for 100W bassmans. The attenuator will decrease that volume to reasonable levels, but it's not quite the same sound. Most believe that it's because the attenuator doesn't act the same way as real speakers, and better quality ones emulate speaker response, instead of presenting a resistor load.
The TS-808 gives you that rock distortion that's very familiar, since almost every guitarist in the 70's and 80's used it. It has nice crunch and bite and allows your guitar to shine through. With the tube amp at 3-5 and the TS-808 set at high gain, you can get hard rock distortion, and possibly metal tones. Of course, you can simply buy a hard rock or heavy metal pedal and use that.
The TS-808 (and other pedal) distortion isn't the same as a tube amp pushed hard. Think about Pete Townsend's early stuff with the Who (Who Are You, etc.) The single notes shine through and he layers on arpeggios and single notes while the chord is still ringing - switching from heavy distortion to articulated notes and both at the same time. You really can't get that with a pedal.
From a guitarist perspective, some like to have a very simple setup. A tube amp at 3-5 will give you a lot of sounds depending on how you set the guitar and how you play. It's a simple setup: guitar - chord - amp. No footswitches. Add a TS-808 and you can get into hard rock distortion.
TS-808 vs. attenuator ... I guess I'm recommending you get both, since they do different things.
If I had to choose one or the other, I'd probably get the attenuator, except on months with an R.
1 watt of pure tube tone - the Living Room Amp!
http://www.naturdoctor.com/Chapters/Amps/LivingRoomAmp.html
Paper-in-oil caps rule!
Thanks guys - After careful research for the last couple of days I have decided to get both.
I opted to buy the new TS-808 REISSUE as it is getting great reviews and costs alot less that the original.I got an excellent price from Musiciansfriend.com
The HOTPLATE/POWERSOAK will be next. Probably the THD - it looks like it has alot of great features. My Bassman is a 50Watt head and 2x12 cab - which cranks a big sound - but it needs to get to that state of power tube saturation and it would break my house in pieces if i turned it up all the way without a power brake.
I will also add probably 2 graphic equalizers - one before or after the TS808 depending on how it works out in the sound check - to really sculpt the tone; and the second possibly in an effects loop ,when I add some time based effects like delay or chorus, before going to the speaker.
The amptone.com site has been so valuable it teaching these tactics for tone mastering.
I will also be researching upgrading my tone capacitors on my Strat with something of vintage origin as well as some top of the line tone pots.
To: PRNDL
I used to live in Punta Gorda and owned a restaurant/ blues club there back in 91, nice to hear a voice from FLA. and good advice too!! Thanks. :wink:
