Hello all,
The other night I was playing a gig in a bar around half the size of a sports hall.
The drums were mic'd up, the Bass DI'd, as were Keys. vocals and keys going through the monitors.
The guitar amp was mic'd up. It s a Fender Stageman 50 watt, I had it on the clean channel and used distortion pedals. All the tones were at 12 o'clock and volume was on 1.
The sound guy said that i was too loud to be turned up through the front of house speakers. Trouble is I couldn't turn down cos
1. It wouldn't have a felt as good to play with
2. I wouldn't be able to be heard above the band.
Can some one help and explain why when the amp is just on 1 so I can hear it, it is too loud for the PA?
Many thanks in advance
First off, you shouldn't be heard above the band; it's a group thing, not a gig with you playing solo guitar in front of a support band - unless there's a lot you're not telling us.
Your sound guy might be right; but then he should have soundchecked and mixed you all properly before you hit the stage.
What are you using for foldback? In-ear monitors or toblerones?
"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk
That last reply was a bit rushed.
Are you using any kind of foldback? Can you hear yourself in it? Your sound guy might still be right - the mix in the hall might be spot on.
I've just looked at my Marshall MG50 FX, which I use for Big Band. The channel volume is on 50% (I use Clean for regular rhythm and Crunch for solos) and the Master volume is on 50%. That allows me to be heard out front whilst I'm sitting behind the horns, next to the bass, drums, percussion and keys. Our bass player pumps out through a 120W something, our keyboard girl belts out through a 100W Marshall, and the drummer plays as loud as she can to be heard by the horns. The only thing we have going into a PA is the vocal. When I stamp on the channel switch for a solo, I'm belted across the front of the mix, so Crunch is louder than clean. I don't use the Distortion/ Obscene channel.
I use ear protection, and zero foldback. I can hear all the sections clearly except the clarinets, but I'd struggle to identify an individual sax or 'bone when we're playing live. When the brass let rip, I have trouble hearing me, and I'm placed three feet in front of my amp.
"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk
Hello all,
The other night I was playing a gig in a bar around half the size of a sports hall.
The drums were mic'd up, the Bass DI'd, as were Keys. vocals and keys going through the monitors.
The guitar amp was mic'd up. It s a Fender Stageman 50 watt, I had it on the clean channel and used distortion pedals. All the tones were at 12 o'clock and volume was on 1.
The sound guy said that i was too loud to be turned up through the front of house speakers.
Can some one help and explain why when the amp is just on 1 so I can hear it, it is too loud for the PA?
Many thanks in advance
Check the name of the amp and the power rating. Fender never made a "Stageman" amp. Ever.
They did/do make a FRONTMan series, but that never had an amp with a 50 watt power rating. 15, 25, 65, and 100 watts there.
They also made a STAGE series with 100 or 160 watts.
Both of these series are solid state, channel switching amps with master volume. I can easily see a scenario where the master volume is maxed out, and the channel volume is on one. This would likely lead to some pretty loud volume peaks if you hit the strings hard.
But, it's hard to give a definite answer without knowing the amp model and power rating.
Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.
Loud enough to overload the mic pre-amp at the lowest gain? That should cause ear bleeding at 10 meters. However, if your amp is near the drum kit, then your sound is getting into all those other mics, which does become difficult to manage.
As above, when you've got everything mic'd, you should set your level just for yourself, and let the soundguy handle the balance.
And definitely have a soundcheck!
Loud enough to overload the mic pre-amp at the lowest gain? That should cause ear bleeding at 10 meters.
Agreed. There's a few things in the original post that give me the impression we haven't got the whole story or accurate info yet.
To wit: "Trouble is I couldn't turn down cos
1. It wouldn't have a felt as good to play with
2. I wouldn't be able to be heard above the band."
Even with my 120 watter, the MASTER volume on one is extremely quiet, but if the master's up all the way and the clean channel volume is on "one" I'll still have my pants legs flapping if I dig in good and hard.
Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.
Thank you all for the responses,
Let me just correct my amp model - Its a Fender Stage 112 SE. There's a clean channel with a volume and a drive channel with a volume but no master volume. The tone controls on the clean channel seem to affect the sensitivity on the volume knob. For distortion I use a distortion pedal (steve vai signature) through the clean channel for solos.
For foldback we had "toblerones" only the bass, vocals and keys went through there.
If you need to know anything else let me know.
Suggestions from my limited experience.
1) If you stand too CLOSE to your amp, or it's blasting your ankles, it will seem quieter to you than it actually is and it will be belting out front.
2) Let the sound man do his thing. At the very least he's out in front and can hear it better.
On stage sound is important so I understand what you are saying - get that right at soundcheck and let the sound guy do front of house levels. I'm not familiar with your amp but maybe the non-volume settings should be considered.....?
Thank you all for the responses,
Let me just correct my amp model - Its a Fender Stage 112 SE. There's a clean channel with a volume and a drive channel with a volume but no master volume. The tone controls on the clean channel seem to affect the sensitivity on the volume knob. For distortion I use a distortion pedal (steve vai signature) through the clean channel for solos.
For foldback we had "toblerones" only the bass, vocals and keys went through there.
If you need to know anything else let me know.
Woof. That's not a 50 watt amp, bro. That's got an output of 160 watts into 4 ohms and probably pushing a good 85 to 100 watts into that single 12. Definitely a bruiser of an amp. I can see where it might even get overwhelming on a volume of "One," especially if you have the dirt pedal set so it boosts the signal a bit.
Since you're not in the monitors ("foldback"), here's some things for you to try that will help the sound guy out:
$ Put the amp on a stand, and/or angle the speaker so it points at your head.
$ Don't aim the amp out to the front, point it ACROSS the stage - so the side of the amp faces the audience
$$ Put a plexiglass baffle in front of it
$$$ Use an attenuator
$$$$ Use a smaller amp.
I used a big honkin' 120 watt Peavey for years, and it can be a challenge keeping stage volume under control with that much power.
Nowadays the Peavey stays home and I'm using a 15 watt Vox or Fender Blues Jr, or a 40 watt '57 Bassman on stage.
Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.
I agree with Moonrider. My Marshall TSL 100 W combo is not up on a stand facing straight out at the audience's head but angled back so I can back up and get the full brunt or go forward to my mic and get outta it's way! At one of our regular haunts I usually have master on 2 and loose change, it's plenty. As long as it sounds good to you on stage and the mix is OK out front, you're cookin'! Cheers!
