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sustain and a clean tone

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MattyPretends116
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How did SRV, for example, get such a sustaining, fluid tone without have tons of gain? I know he used the neck pup which lends itself to a smooth sound, but does having an all tube amp cranked up really give all that sustain without increased? Obviously a lot of factors attribute to sustain, such as guitar body type and what not, but how much does the amp contribute.

I have an all tube marshall, but never really cranked it up becuase I dont have an attentuator, and it is currently out of commission for a bit. I also play a semi-hollow guitar with an acoustic bridge, which doesn't really sustain very well at all. I mentioned this to my teacher one day, and he corrected me saying it was more the amp than the guitar (I was playing solid state @ that time) Obviously, a marshall won't give a fender tone but will the sustain increase noticabely if the power section is cranked w/o having to add tons of gain?

Thanks,
Matt

"Contrary to popular belief, Clapton is NOT God. The prospect that he is God probably had a large hand in driving him to drugs and booze. Thanks everyone."

-Guitar World :lol:


   
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Wes Inman
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Yes, cranking a tube amp into saturation makes a huge difference in sustain. Also, SRV was known to use a Tubescreamer which also adds to sustain. Stevie was also known to play at ear-splitting volume levels.

Go to Opinions and Polls and listen to the Albert King video from 1970. This is just a guitar into a good tube amp really cranked to high volume. Listen to the incredible sustain.

Here it is.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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MattyPretends116
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Thanks a lot Wes, I'll check it out now. You gave me lots of advice on my DSL a long while back, if you remember. Put it to good use and found some great tones - six days later my preamp section blew! So its been outta commission for 2 months. Thanks for the reply, I'll let you know how I make out once I get it repaired, I'm a bit shortchanged at the moment

:)
Matt

"Contrary to popular belief, Clapton is NOT God. The prospect that he is God probably had a large hand in driving him to drugs and booze. Thanks everyone."

-Guitar World :lol:


   
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Wes Inman
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I hear ya.

I love Marshall amps, but they always have problems. My DSL401 is in the shop too. After firing it up, about 2 minutes later the volume would fade away to nothing. Sometimes the volume would come back in a minute or two and the amp would play fine for hours. Sometimes it would come back and then fade away in a few minutes again and never return. I went to the Marshall Amp Forum and found that a few people had this exact same problem. It is supposedly the preamp tube heater rectifier.

Anyway, I put it in the shop a week ago and hope to have it back by Saturday.

I still love this amp, it has a great overdrive channels. But I like the clean channel too.

The DSL401 clean channel starts breaking up around 6. It is not quite like the video, but it's a good blues overdrive.

Want to get a tone like that video, check out the Fender Blues Deluxe Re-issue. Crank it to about 6 or higher and you will sound just like that video. My HRD will do it too. To get that tone you need an amp with a good clean channel.

Was your amp under warranty? Maybe you can get it fixed for free.

Let us know how it turns out. But if you want reliability, go Fender, or Peavey, or Traynor, or ..... anybody but Marshall. :D

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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Doug_C
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Yes, cranking a tube amp into saturation makes a huge difference in sustain. Also, SRV was known to use a Tubescreamer which also adds to sustain. Stevie was also known to play at ear-splitting volume levels.Yep. I've got a couple of Hal Leonard books in my collection that make reference to SRV using a Tube Screamer not for distortion (he had a Fuzz Face for that) but for gain and sustain. One source also says Stevie actually had two Tube Screamers (TS-808 flavor) in his rig. Pushing that into a pair of Fender Super Reverbs (4x10 each) and a pair of Fender Vibro-Verbs (1x15 each) probably helped.
I just got a "new" tube amp, and I have yet to try my TS7 (modified by Analog Man) or TS9 with it. I bet it'll be more like tuuuuuuuuube amp then. 8)


   
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dogbite
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tubescreamers are awesome pedals. I love mine.
they have a nice amount of compression in them so you get nice sutains and if you work that note with some vibrato you'll get a harmonic overtone.

compressor pedals, like MXR will give you all kinds of sustain at very usable volumes.
I cant crank my tube amp to saturation. it's too damn ear splitting.
dogs in the next county lost their hearing when I did once. .

so think about a TS9 tubescreamer or the Turbo version (it hs four awesome settings) and an MXR dynacomp compressor.

we'll call you little steevie.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders


   
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Doug_C
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compressor pedals, like MXR will give you all kinds of sustain at very usable volumes.I forgot all about compressors when adding my previous reply. I have a pair of MXR Dyna Comps, one of which has been modded to "Dyna/Ross" specs by Analog Man. That one "lives with" my electric 12-string.
Roger McGuinn has an onboard compressor built into his Rickenabcker 360/12RM, having used a "comp" for sustain since at least his days in the Byrds.
we'll call you little steevie.Yeah, you can develop "Maine blues-rock" as a new style, just like Texas blues-rock. 8)


   
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PVTele
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I've discovered an excellent semi-clean blues tone with tons of sustain using the "US Blues" amp model on my GFX-1, with the compressor module turned up to 9 and the gain low down - with a Strat it has very much an early Buddy Guy tone, tending towards SRV as you increase the gain. With a Tele it's a sound all of its own, almost a T-Bone Walker-ish tone on the neck pickup - beautiful!

Yes, a compressor would definitely be worth investigation - the old MXR Dyna-Comp takes a lot of beating :D


   
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MattyPretends116
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Thanks for all the responses guys. Yeah Wes, I heard the same about Marshall's inconsistency, but it seemed to be a 50/50 split; some people had loads of problems, some didn't, so I decided to go for it when a good price popped up. I bought mine from ebay, so no warrenty. Its a 2001, and I have no idea how its been treated, although it seems to be in good shape. I'm betting it just needs new tubes, although 4-5 years is a bit soon for that but you never know......

TSs seem to be a pretty good overdrive pedal, I've never used one but I've heard all about them. Maybe I'll look into it, but I want to try an attentuator first since that'll get the power section working. Another amp I've heard a ton about is the Peavey Delta Blues. Its kind of a diamond in the rough, bad marketing due to the name but its supposed to be a great R&R/blues rock amp. Never played one, has anyone here?

"Contrary to popular belief, Clapton is NOT God. The prospect that he is God probably had a large hand in driving him to drugs and booze. Thanks everyone."

-Guitar World :lol:


   
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Doug_C
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I bought mine from ebay, so no warrenty. Its a 2001, and I have no idea how its been treated, although it seems to be in good shape. I'm betting it just needs new tubes, although 4-5 years is a bit soon for that but you never know......If the bias got cockeyed somewhere (Marshalls mostly have "fixed" bias), it could be detrimental to the tubes. http://www.kcanostubes.com/content/newsletter_details.asp?ArticleID=2
Is a "DSL" a JCM-2000, and which one do you have?
TSs seem to be a pretty good overdrive pedal, I've never used one but I've heard all about them. Maybe I'll look into it, but I want to try an attentuator first since that'll get the power section working.
I know you've done a bunch of research already, but I did want to mention something about attenuators, again not from personal experience, but something picked up while looking up other things. See the third question on this page: http://www.amptone.com/powerattenuatorfaq.htm .
I'd be bummin' if I didn't mention that and it turned out you didn't already know about it, so there ya go. :wink:
Another amp I've heard a ton about is the Peavey Delta Blues. Its kind of a diamond in the rough, bad marketing due to the name but its supposed to be a great R&R/blues rock amp. Never played one, has anyone here?I haven't played any Peavey gear myself, but there are a bunch of reviews here http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/Peavey/ for the Delta Blues and DB 210. They got an overall 8.6 and 9.3, respectively. Looks like they're a 1x15 and a 2x10, both 30 watts.


   
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MattyPretends116
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Yep, its a JCM-2000 DSL 401 40 watt combo. Thanks for that info page; its seems that you have to be careful about setup. I don't know much (ie anything) about electronics, so I'm definately going to err on the side of caution, but I play @ bedroom levels 95% of the time and I still want to get that wonderful tube saturation I've heard so much about without blowing out the windows :) Wes gave me some info a while back on the attenuator he uses, and it seems to match up pretty well with the DSL circuitry. In terms of the Marshall power brake...I wasn't going to go that route anyway since its overpriced and evidently doesn't work too well.

That site seemed like a good reference, haven't looked at the rest of it besides the page you linked to. Wes described step by step how to hook the attenuator up and how to set the output level (16 ohms for the DSL). Thanks again for the info.

:)M

"Contrary to popular belief, Clapton is NOT God. The prospect that he is God probably had a large hand in driving him to drugs and booze. Thanks everyone."

-Guitar World :lol:


   
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Doug_C
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Yep, its a JCM-2000 DSL 401 40 watt combo. Cool! 8)
I don't know much (ie anything) about electronicsDon't feel like the Lone Ranger there. I took an Electronics Tech course twenty-something years ago, and about all I know is which end of a soldering to hold. :lol:
I just got that Fender Musicmaster, so now I'm a Toob Noob.
I'm definately going to err on the side of caution, but I play @ bedroom levels 95% of the time and I still want to get that wonderful tube saturation I've heard so much about without blowing out the windows :)Yeah, I hate it when that happens, especially on windy days like this. (Is York County getting pounded, too?)
Wes gave me some info a while back on the attenuator he uses, and it seems to match up pretty well with the DSL circuitry. In terms of the Marshall power brake...I wasn't going to go that route anyway since its overpriced and evidently doesn't work too well.No "smoke tests" for you, eh? :wink:
That site seemed like a good reference, haven't looked at the rest of it besides the page you linked to. Wes described step by step how to hook the attenuator up and how to set the output level (16 ohms for the DSL). Thanks again for the info.Wes is pretty sharp with stuff like that. I get some good info from his posts.
And you're welcome. Glad I had some info you could use.


   
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Wes Inman
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Matt

Perhaps your DSL401 has the same problem as mine, I read up on the Marshall Amp Forum and found several people had this exact problem with this particular amp. Also, when I took my amp to my local shop a friend who works there who is an excellent player and has a collection of Marshall amps told me this happens to these amps often. So perhaps you have the same problem. As I told you, these amps have a history of the preamp heater rectifier going out. Your volume just goes out while you are playing it. If you look in the back you will see the two center preamp tubes are dim while the four power tubes are bright. The preamp tube behind the power tubes will be bright as well.

I don't think my attenuator had anything to do with this. I've had my amp almost a year and it was fine. I think this is just a common problem with this particular amp.

Fortunately, I have read this is not too expensive a repair. I also picked up my amp used for $400, so I don't mind paying up to $150 to fix it. It is a great sounding amp, I love the tone, so it is worth it to me.

Matt, 4-5 years is a pretty long time for tubes if you crank your amp all the time. Perhaps a tube just wore out. Maybe you have a local TV repair shop that has an old tube tester.

But if you are after SRV you need a Fender. You can pick up a used HRD for $300-400. You can get Stevie's tone easy with this amp.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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DaveC
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One things which isn't Amp or EFX related seems to be missing from this thread which will add a lot to sustain.... SRV generally used the heaviest guitar strings he could find.

"And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on earth." - Eric Idle, The Galaxy Song.


   
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djdubb
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I hear ya.

I love Marshall amps, but they always have problems. My DSL401 is in the shop too. After firing it up, about 2 minutes later the volume would fade away to nothing. Sometimes the volume would come back in a minute or two and the amp would play fine for hours. Sometimes it would come back and then fade away in a few minutes again and never return. I went to the Marshall Amp Forum and found that a few people had this exact same problem. It is supposedly the preamp tube heater rectifier.

Anyway, I put it in the shop a week ago and hope to have it back by Saturday.

I still love this amp, it has a great overdrive channels. But I like the clean channel too.

The DSL401 clean channel starts breaking up around 6. It is not quite like the video, but it's a good blues overdrive.

Want to get a tone like that video, check out the Fender Blues Deluxe Re-issue. Crank it to about 6 or higher and you will sound just like that video. My HRD will do it too. To get that tone you need an amp with a good clean channel.

Was your amp under warranty? Maybe you can get it fixed for free.

Let us know how it turns out. But if you want reliability, go Fender, or Peavey, or Traynor, or ..... anybody but Marshall. :D

Thanks for the post Wes, I have been looking for that blues tone but I haven't been cranking the Hot Rod Deville. Today I went home on used the more drive channel I had the drive on 10, and master volume on 8, I had my tube overdrive pedal level all the way up and the gain all the down, the guitar volume was about 6.
I had some classic tone and my guitar was sustaining forever without the compressor. I had the tone in that video but not the licks :lol:
Anyways thanks!!

"Failure is the key to success" Lee Wen; Champ vs Champ


   
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