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They call it vintage, I call it lame...

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(@ignar-hillstrom)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
Topic starter  

So i was reading about the supposedly-cool new Vox beginners amp called the VR-series. Uses the same poweramp circuitry as the valvetronix series, but without modeling or effects, just two channels and a lower price. So far so good. For some reason they have to give it oldschool chickenhead knobs, colours and whatnot. Still somewhat ok to me. But then some bumhead at Vox decides it would be cool to have a shared two-band EQ. I mean *really*, I don't need a dual 7band EQ in my amp and neither do other beginners. But shared? How are you ever going to get a proper sound out of both channels?

Sometimes I just don't understand why 'like in the old days' is more important then having basic and usefull features... :?


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

Nostalgia has value, I guess.

I know my 15 watt 1976 Fender tube amp is currently worth about 17 times what I paid for it (I bought it used in 1979). There are amps just as good - or better - for about 1/5 the current market price of it.

Having gear like that is almost like owning blue chip stocks :)

So they're just trying to build in the 'value' of nostalgia, I think. They're far from the only ones - Fender's got their 'Relic' series. You can get a brand-new beat-up guitar for the price of a brand-new non-beat-up guitar... just add $2000!

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@forrok_star)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2337
 

Their trying to say competitive, other companies are offering lower priced units so their banking on their " Quote: truly remarkable breakthrough in amplifier technology " to carry them forward. With so many companies and boutique amps now on the market its hard to say ahead. Its an interesting concept that their using creating a transparent current feedback solid-state power amplifier then looping part of the signal back into the tube part of the power amp. For the price it would be a good amp to start with compared to some of the other amps fly-by-companies are pushing as starter amps.

joe


   
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(@ajcharron)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 121
 

Problem nowadays, and this has been confirmed to me by someone at Behringer and a Canadian distrubutor, is that one way or another, when it comes to solid state, we generally get robbed blind.

Dealers buy these amps for between $30 and $200. Then they jack up the prices... The stuff's made in China and that's why it's so inexpensive. Remember that that $500 amp might really be worth $75.

Pricing: I know for a fact that Behringer's price are generally not too-increased (they're made in China, but at Behringer's own factory and run by Behringer's people).

Other companies get a middle-man, give him the specs and pick up the finished merchandise. If people complain, they get the middle man to go to another factory. Keep in mind that the big names (Fender, Marshall, etc) all operate this way. They rely on a reputation which was built at another time when the industry worked differently and most people think they're buying the same quality: they're not.

A Behringer amp at $400 costs them maybe $300; much more bang for the buck. I'm not saying they're the only one like this, just that you have to be careful and meticulous. Go to the newer brands: check them out in detail (not just the amps, but the companies also). Find out as much as you can. Quite often, two amps from two different companies will be made in the same factory; they'll have different speakers, but the difference stops there.


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

Arjen

Yeah, there is a lot of hype involved with these "vintage" amps.

But truth is, they got the original design of tube amps right and they did have awesome tone. And that is what most people are after.

I have a 1958 Premier Twin 8 amp in all original condition including original tubes and the power cord without groud. Premier was the poor boy's amp of the 50's and 60's in competition with the more expensive Fenders. This amp is probably 5 watts and weighs less than 10 lbs. The cab is made of particle board. It is interesting in that in addition to guitar input it also has a microphone and even accordian input jack. :D It has the famous Premier colored knobs (red, white, and black). It has volume, tone, and tremelo controls.

But I'll tell ya, you would not believe the absolutely fabulous tone of this little amp. It is so warm and full. The tremelo is awesome.

So, there is something to be said for "vintage" tone. Those amps did
sound great.

Premier Amps are sought out by Blues Harp players. Many consider these the best Blues Harp amp bar none. Here is a page on Premier Amps.

Premier Amps

I don't like the idea of sharing the tone stack either. A seperate EQ for both channels is always better.

But I don't think anybody should buy an amp because of the vintage label.
Buy an amp with great tone period. That is what matters.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@blackzerogsh)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 759
 

So they're just trying to build in the 'value' of nostalgia, I think. They're far from the only ones - Fender's got their 'Relic' series. You can get a brand-new beat-up guitar for the price of a brand-new non-beat-up guitar... just add $2000!

Nicely said noteboat. I was trying to explain that to a friend about how ridicilous (to some poeple) the fender relic series. "Buy a beat up, *rap looking guitar for the same price, instead of buying a perfectly new one.

The rest of you are all correct. For people (like me) who weren't around when all this excellent gear came out, it's our only chance to see what it was like. Unfortuanetly, the only thing the industry does is rip people off. But if I were to buy any "vintage gear" it would probably be the Vox AC30 reissue, since its a reissu,e its going to more of a deal, I hope that anything else. Also, I would buy a custom shop 58 les paul reissue, it doesnt have vintage wualitites, it's the actual model from that year.


   
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(@gunslinger)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 345
 

So they're just trying to build in the 'value' of nostalgia, I think. They're far from the only ones - Fender's got their 'Relic' series. You can get a brand-new beat-up guitar for the price of a brand-new non-beat-up guitar... just add $2000!

I think nostalgia isnt what they're looking for, I think it's character. Have you guys seen the "Easy Like Sunday Morning" Levi's (or some kind of jeans anyway) commercial? If not, the gist of it is that this guy is putting this pair of jeans through hell. He runs a motorcycle tire over them in spots, sands part of them down (for the faded effect), puts oil stains on them...basically turning them into what looks like someone's favorite pair of jeans. At the end, he gives them to what I can only assume is his girlfriend and gets on a bus to go somewhere far away. As soon as she's out of sight, he pulls off the sweats he's wearing to reveal that he made those to look just like his favorite pair so he wouldnt have to be without them.

Great story, yes? Well, sort of. What he's done is given the other pair character...he's given it stories. Thats the reason that you can buy jeans that are faded on the knees, patched, ripped, faded on the butt, ect. at a lot of stores...people want to look like they can tell a story about something. This is why they can sell guitars like this. People want to look like the guitar was bought years before they were born and passed to them by their (insert family member here) who was nearly a rock star, except for his/her bum knee.

I really didnt mean to ramble like this, I swear.

Our songs also have the standard pop format: Verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, bad solo. All in all, I think we sound like The Knack and the Bay City Rollers being molested by Black Flag and Black Sabbath.

Kurt Cobain


   
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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 7833
 

Still, a fake aged guitar is only a fake old guitar. I don't want one. I'll take good care of mine, and whatever wear they get from honest use, that's what they'll have.

Maybe I'll make my fortune and retire by "relic-ing" new Mercedes for wealthy people who're too busy to wear them in properly. For a reasonable fee, I'll expertly ding the doors, bumpers and fenders, misalign the headlights, scrape the paint to the primer here and there and salt-corrode the rocker panels, just like a vintage one that's been loved and used for many years. That ought to be a wide open market, I don't think anyone's doing it yet.
:lol:

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@blackzerogsh)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 759
 

Thank you for that ricochet, it gave me a good laugh. :lol:

If you really cut it down to basics, thats what Fender is doing, becuase they seirosuly plan out the wear and stuff, and they put the plastic parts somehwere to age and yellow them to the right amount. It's people who are essentially, professionals at ruining things, and by buying their work, we're supoorting the biggest rip-off of a job to other poeple. (If it was me making those guitars, I wouldnt be complaining one bit. :lol: )


   
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(@gunslinger)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 345
 

(If it was me making those guitars, I wouldnt be complaining one bit. :lol: )
Haha! I hear that. I think Ricochet may be onto something though...people do it with jeans, guitars, martial arts uniforms (you wouldnt believe what I've seen some people do just to look like they've practiced a lot), backpacks, baseball caps, and all kinds of other stuff. Maybe it's time for cars, houses (put some broken toys and crappy swing sets in the yard so that it feels like children live there), and things like that.

Our songs also have the standard pop format: Verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, bad solo. All in all, I think we sound like The Knack and the Bay City Rollers being molested by Black Flag and Black Sabbath.

Kurt Cobain


   
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(@blackzerogsh)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 759
 

I agree with whats being said here. In my high school, we have the russian, vodka drinkin, armani, diesel people here, and I find it very funny that

1. all their clothes are armani and diesel, shirts are about $90 each.

2. they pay absurd prices for pre-ripped jeans that are ripped on the knees and on the back leg, it makesd you think what people will do to stay "fashionable"

Essentially, it's the same thing happening in guitar land, like, the full undertsnading of buying "relic" guitars has not been justified yet. For now, it's something cool to get. Give it some time, and people will begin to realize that you are essentially buying a piece of *hit (or preferably $hit) wrapped in a nice, warm, soothing brand name. :lol:


   
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(@nicktorres)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 5381
 

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.


   
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(@ricochet)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 7833
 

And if any of you relic guys want one with some real bar-gig mojo, send it to me with $100 and I'll send it back all smoked up, with a .45 Auto bullet hole in it.
:lol:

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@blackzerogsh)
Prominent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 759
 

why do that, when I can get it done for $2000 from fender? :wink:


   
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