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What is needed when a band plays live?

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(@ohblahitsme)
Eminent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 27
Topic starter  

Hey guys,
I was wondering, when a normal rock band plays live(or any band for that matter) what things do they need to be heard.
I know they need a loud amp for the guitar and bass, but what about vocals and drums? What do they use to be heard. I know they use something like a PA system, but how do they put it all together?

Any links would be helpful,

Thanks a lot!


   
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(@kent_eh)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1882
 

It depends :D

How many musicians?
what instruments?
how big a room/how big an audience?

For a solo singer/guitar player in a coffee house setting, you wouldn't need much at all. A mic, a DI a small mixer/amplifier and a speaker.

For small bands (2-5 members) in fairly small settings (like a bar that seats less than 100 people) most bands I have seen use their guitar amps, keyboard amps, and drums as-is, and run a small PA for the vocals and any acoustic instruments.

That sort of small PA can be as little as a powered mixer (a mixer with built in amplifier), and a mic for each singer. Add a couple of speakers and a monitor speaker, and you're ready to go. Something like this would do the trick or this, if you add some mic stands.
Here's an article that describes one way to set up a similar system.
And here's [link removed] another that shows a few different sizes of systems.

In bigger venues (300 seats +) most bands will mic the guitar amps, and at least the kick, snare, and hi-hat. The keys and Bass will be connected to the PA mixer using a DI. This, of course needs a bigger mixer (one channel for each mic and Di, plus a couple extras for effects), and separate amplifiers for the PA. Other gear includes a graphic equalizer, a reverb or multi-effect unit and more/bigger speakers. And more monitors (up to 1 per singer)

With any of the above, you also need mic cables, speaker cables, mic stands, extension cords and power bars. And duct tape.

When you get bigger than that, most bands then to rent their PA.
Even if you are starting out, sometimes renting makes sense until you get a feel for what you really need for the gigs you do.

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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(@ohblahitsme)
Eminent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 27
Topic starter  

Awesome thanks a lot. I was thinking of when you play in a bar or something that seats around 100 people. Thanks for the links as well.

EDIT:
After searching on guitarcenter.com, I found this:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Phonic-Powerpod-410---S710-PA-System-630485-i1395799.gc
Do you think that would be enough for a small gig and practice?
Would I need to get a mixer and a EQ as well?


   
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(@kent_eh)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1882
 

For practice, sure. You'd need to add mics if you have more than one singer. And mic stands. You'd essentially use the speakers as monitors in that scenario.

For a gig, you might want more power, and you would definitely need some sort of monitor. With a band playing behind you it's very difficult to sing well without one.

Perhaps the bigger brother to the one you linked.
It has 2 amplifier channels (one for main, one for monitor) as well as equalizers for both AND it has some effects built in. You would have to add a monitor speaker (and speaker cable).

I'm not familiar with the Phonic brand, so I can't comment on it's ease of use or durability. But for $300, it looks like a pretty good deal.

Another thing to consider for these smaller speaker cabinets, you will want to get them up off the floor. Some sort of stand might be in order.
The higher frequencies (your vocals or acoustic guitar, for instance) will not travel to the back of the room if the speaker is sitting down low. The sound will be absorbed by the bodies of the audience in the front row.

And, to answer your specific questions...

EDIT:
After searching on guitarcenter.com, I found this:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Phonic-Powe ... 1395799.gc
Do you think that would be enough for a small gig and practice?
Would I need to get a mixer and a EQ as well?
That unit is a 4 channel mixer with built-in amplifier. It isn't really designed to accommodate adding an EQ, but as I said above, it would work fine for practice. If you got feedback, you would have to try and eliminate it with the tone controls and/or changing the orientation of the mics or speakers.

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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(@ohblahitsme)
Eminent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 27
Topic starter  

Wow thanks a lot for your help, that $300 system looks like a huge upgrade from the $200 one I posted.
Once again, thanks a lot.


   
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(@wes-inman)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

You can build a far more powerful PA for about the same price.

Here is a fairly powerful amplifier.

Nady XA-700

This is far more powerful than the Phonic powered mixer which is only 2 X 100 watts at 4 ohms. The speakers provided are 8 ohms, which means the Phonic will only deliver about 70 watts to each speaker. This would be OK for an acoustic type group, but if you have a drummer and play loud that is not nearly enough power. This Nady is 2 X 350 watts at 4 ohms, with two 8 ohms speakers each would get about 245 watts, MUCH BETTER.

Here are some reasonable speakers that sound good.

Kustom 12" full range speaker

You want at least 12" PA speakers, smaller than that really doesn't have any low end. If you plan on running instruments into the PA, then you really should go for 15" speakers. But 12" are very good for vocals. I have used Kustom PA speakers a few times, and for the price they are really very good.

Now you need a mixer, the more inputs the better.

Behringer mixer with effects

This is the lowest priced mixer with effects I found. I own many Behringer products including two PA mixers, they are very good for the price.

You will need some mics.

Behringer XM8500

This is a very good mic for an excellent price, read the reviews.

You will need two speaker cables.

Horizon Speaker Cables

With speaker cables, the lower number the gauge, the bigger the cable. You should go at least 16 gauge, you can get two 30" cables for for $15 each.

You need a mic cable for each mic.

Musicians Fried mic cables

I have bought these before, they are not bad at all if you take care of them.

You need two speaker stands.

Speaker stands

OK, I'm sure you're starting to get overwhelmed by now. Truth is, a PA system is VERY EXPENSIVE, you can spend many thousands of dollars for a good PA.

The Phonic PA you looked at will get you started, but you must understand that it does not have much power at all. If your band can keep the volume very low, it will possibly work. But as soon as you get a little loud you will push that system to it's limit and it will feedback and possibly blow the speakers. It simply doesn't have the power for most Rock bands.

You really should spend some time and make sure you understand a PA system. Go to Scott's PA tutorial and read, it is a great site that will help you understand sound systems. They have a friendly message board where you can ask questions too.

Scott's PA Tutorial

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@kent_eh)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1882
 

Listen to Wes, he gives good advice.
I know you were looking for an inexpensive solution, and you might make do for a while with the system we were talking about a couple of posts back, but in the end you would be happier with something like what Wes suggested.

You will always want more power and more inputs. Get as much as you can afford.

I have seen many small bands in small rooms using something similar to this with added monitors and extra mics. The predecessor to that one is a Peavey XR600 and SP2 speakers. There are hundreds of bands that started with those since the '70s.

The Yamaha or Behringer packages I mentioned in my first post are also quite similar..

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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