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When to have a 'sound engineer'

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(@leear)
Honorable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 392
 

first off i've been looking for that far side pic for ever. Whenever we run sound and there is a bad band (not that opening acts are bad just sometimes some groups are not totally prepared to perform at certain venues) We always joke (the engineers) about man turn the suck knob down. LOL!!! anyway.

If you want to tell if it makes a difference just watch your audience. The crowd will tell you if it sucks, you'll be able to see it. If they are just mingling and talking not paying you any attention. It may suck. If they seem drawn to you and alert its probably ok. And you can tell from the stage. I mean if he's doing an oustanding job you'll be able to tell how clear it is from the stage it will sound different then what you are used too.

No matter where you go.... There You are! Law of Location


   
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(@rob77)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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If they think it sucks, maybe it's not the sound, maybe its the band :lol:

"Who says you can't 'dive bomb' a bigsby?!"


   
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(@rob77)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 136
Topic starter  

So latest update:
The extra money is purely for wear & tear on oldmates' equipment. I don't know what he does with it when we're not playing but it must be rough!!!!

At first I thought he might be pulling a swifty, but he's genuine - pluss he's doing all the footwork at the moment getting gigs - and good ones at that. So I'm happy to go along with it - call it a management fee if you will. Does anyone else use this system of the PA getting an equal share of the takings, like a player?

"Who says you can't 'dive bomb' a bigsby?!"


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
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If he's hauling and setting up the PA and getting you gigs, PAY THE MAN. That's a good deal. Make sure he's giving everybody an equal cut, nothing will break up a band quicker than one member giving himself a little extra. :twisted:

We used to play a club where we only got the door. They got good crowds so that was good, but we noticed that they let lots of folks in free (especially the really hot girls). So we started bringing a friend along, he would work the door all night for us. He was a great guy we really trusted, and he didn't let anybody in without paying. We always gave him an equal cut because he worked all night, and we made more money.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@rob77)
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He's not hauling the PA, & we help set-up & pull down. But he does alot on the side so I don't begrudge him the extra. He's also become our booking agent & is doing a great job, so we're all happy. Who's in it for the money anyway?

"Who says you can't 'dive bomb' a bigsby?!"


   
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(@leear)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 392
 

At some point everyone is in it for the money :twisted:

I love playing music for the joy of it but at some point me playing a local place where they are making profit and I'm getting nothing is going to stop.

No matter where you go.... There You are! Law of Location


   
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(@rob77)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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True, my feeling is it's not about the amount of money but the fair allocation of resources & rewards! Even though we get paid it doesn't cover outlays - the buzz from the crowd is what I'm hunting. My own form of needing confirmation / gratification maybe? Who knows - I just love it when people are enjoying what we're doing & they're going off! :lol:

"Who says you can't 'dive bomb' a bigsby?!"


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
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I am in it for the money for several reasons. I leave home hours before a gig to go pack up heavy gear. It is almost like moving. Then you spend gas money to get to the club. You spend an hour or more setting up, then you wait for show time. Now you play for four or five hours. Then at the end of the night you pack up again, drive home, unload gear. That is a lot of work, and I feel I deserve to be paid for it.

Think about this.... every Friday and Saturday night many thousands of clubs hire bands to play. Do you think they do this because they like to give their money away?? Of course not. Bands make MONEY for the club. When there is no band, a club is dead. People might have one drink, but then they will leave for some place more exciting. But if there is a band, and especially a good band, then the club is full of excitement. People will stay all night and drink plenty. Clubs know this, so never let them treat you like they are doing you some big favor for letting you play. It is just the opposite, you are doing them a big favor. It is only fair to share in the reward.

And lastly, I get satisfaction from getting paid to play music. It is always fun to play, but it is far more satisfying to be paid for it.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4459
 

I haven't read the whole thred but Wes is right on. That is the reason that bands are in clubs in the first place to make the club money.

I can see if you are just starting out to play a few clubs for nothing that's cool to get your name out there but I wouldn't play for free to much, like Wes said you have to put in alot of time packing, driving, etc.

No on the other side the clubs are usually looking to pay the least amount of money to a band. I worked at a club, which was fairly large, held alittle under 2500 people. They had national acts every weekend and sometimes during the week but local bands "NEVER" got paid to play there. As a matter of fact you had to guarantee that you had sold x number of tickets or you couldn't play. But alot of bands wanted to do that beacuse the club was pretty well known, had a huge stage, dressing rooms, a monster sound system..basically a venue that they never would get to play otherwise.

But I had some of the most boring nights working when they had some local bands playing hardcore music to about 50 people. In a club that holds 2500, having 50 people there didn't even cover the expenses.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@trguitar)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 3709
 

I'd like to get out and play in front of people, I haven't done it in a long time. If and when I do though, I would like to make a couple of bucks. I'm certainly not going to go into the red to do it, that is for sure. On the topic of paying the sound guy ..... if he has his own PA system and runs it, that is his instrument and he is in effect playing it, he is a member of the band. I'd give him an equal cut. I would see him as a partner in the business venture. What if you paid someone to run sound and rented a PA from somewhere else? Would probably cost you more than a equal share. If the person were just running sound and the band owned the equipment, I would see that person as more of an employee of the band. I think a salary would be more in order in that case rather than a share. From the sound of this situation, this guy sounds like a partner, I mean getting bookings and all as well.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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(@rob77)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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Topic starter  

Hey TR: The reason I was dubious is because this guy sings & plays the harp in our band (& gets an equal share for that as well) & is therefore getting two cuts.
Cnev & Wes: I know where you're comming from, I've been giging for years now & I know how it works - Don't get me wrong, I like getting paid for playing & there's nothing wrong with that - I'm just saying that it's not my main motivation. If the money becomes your motivation then I think you're in it for the wrong reasons. I'm not a religious man but playing a hot set is as close as I've come to getting a spiritual vibe 8)

"Who says you can't 'dive bomb' a bigsby?!"


   
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(@trguitar)
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Posts: 3709
 

So he's getting 2 shares and everyone else is getting one? That don't seem right. :roll:

A band I was in, we had a guy, friend of mine that did a DJ gig. He had four columb speakers, a very large power amp and lots of lights. The group saw none of it. He would show up with his keyboard and crappy little amp, play so loud it drownded the rest of us out and complain that he couldn't hear his vocals because we didn't have a decent PA. He had no intention of the band using his sound system or lights, yet would have expected a full share when I was supplying the inadequit PA as well as guitars for the whole band and a space to rehearse and a truck to haul the gear. He wanted me to buy a better PA! The other guys in the band came to me and asked if I'd quit if they kicked him out of the group. I said heck no and we carried on. I think every member should contribute and give 100% for an equal share.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

Rob

Hey, I love to play in front of people, that has always been my motivation. That is why I have spent many thousands of dollars on guitars, amps, and two full fledged PA systems of my own. But....

There comes a time when you demand pay on principle. I have spent 35 years trying to learn how to play this instrument. I have spent thousands of hours rehearsing with bands, carefully tweaking my sound for live performance...

I still play for free sometimes. We got a gig coming up July 4th. But it is a block party for a friend. We will get drinks and plenty to eat. So it will be a good time. But we are still working on material with the end goal of working clubs for pay.

I love everytime I play in front of people, but I love it even more when I get paid well to do it.

"A workman is worth his hire"

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@diceman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 407
 

There is nothing wrong with getting paid to do something you love doing . The difference between musicians and other "professionals" is that nobody invites a doctor to a party and says " by the way , can you remove my brother's gall bladder while you're there ? We can't pay you anything but the food and drink is free . "

If I claim to be a wise man , it surely means that I don't know .


   
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(@rob77)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 136
Topic starter  

...yeah I agree Wes, but if I was to focus on the money then I don't think I'd enjoy it as much. I do it as a hobby & a release, so if it pays for itself that's great. We do charge on principle, and when we're a three - peice we're all for one & one for all. The four piece with this bloke that's getting a double share is an experiment & we'll see where we end-up. It does rub me up a bit, but I try not to focus on that too much. Maybe us other three are too soft & should tell him where to go :lol:
ah well, it's all fun & games 8)

"Who says you can't 'dive bomb' a bigsby?!"


   
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