Rethinking my time here.

I have to say that since I have been here I have seen several rather spirited discussions, so I don't really think GN is too conservative or pc. I would more likely call it expecting a certain maturity level from it's posters.

I didn't see the thread(s) in question but I am an administrator on another website and I know that rants and flaming don't help anyone. Constructive opinions on why you don't like a particular style or band is ok but if you feel like you have to tell someone that what they like sucks, then you really shouldn't be posting to begin with. Often it is not what someone is saying that is the problem but the way they are saying it.

I disagree with this, Cnev. What I see on Hear Here is that relationships develop over time, where people feel increasingly "safe" in giving constructive criticism, based on how that criticism is received by the original poster. Most of those doing the critiquing on Hear Here (and the two songwriting forums, as well) respond with a sensitivity to how much criticism the poster can take without being unduly hurt or offended. If gentle criticism is well-received and appreciated, the critics can get a little more specific and raise the bar a little when subsequent clips are posted. If the poster takes offense at even the gentlest criticism, they surely shouldn't expect people to spend time crafting well-thought out, honest critiques in the future.

+1

I disagree with this, Cnev. What I see on Hear Here is that relationships develop over time, where people feel increasingly "safe" in giving constructive criticism, based on how that criticism is received by the original poster. Most of those doing the critiquing on Hear Here (and the two songwriting forums, as well) respond with a sensitivity to how much criticism the poster can take without being unduly hurt or offended. If gentle criticism is well-received and appreciated, the critics can get a little more specific and raise the bar a little when subsequent clips are posted. If the poster takes offense at even the gentlest criticism, they surely shouldn't expect people to spend time crafting well-thought out, honest critiques in the future.

Also, from what I've seen, beginners who post at Hear Here will tend to be dealt with more gently than those who have a depth and range of skills, and that is as it should be, IMO. We beginners need more encouragement and advice on different aspects than those who've been playing forever.
And +1, too!

I'm a beginner and I only posted a couple of recordings in the Hear Here forum. I received very good comments and advices and not only good words. I agree with the comments, they were true and all were correctly expressed. I'm very grateful.

I also listen some recordings. Sometimes I give my opinion, if I like the piece or performace or if I can contribute with an idea to improve it. Always I read the other comments because I can learn from them. I guess the other members use my same procedure.

As I said in another post, the problem is the way in which we say some things...

Oddly enough, this seems to have started with the McCartney Dance Tonight thread in the opinions section, which was initially just a mindless one-off post (mine) about a mindless one-off song, but which generated a handful of strong opinions about the song and McCartney's / The Beatles' music in general. That led directly to the I Don't Like This Artist thread, which in turn spurred the Gender thread and of course the Where Is The I Don't Like This Artist Thread? thread, then the Deleted Items thread, and this one, with two members leaving! Snowballed out of control.

It could have happened with the Hendrix thread a few months ago, given the fanboy ravings (j/k ;)) and then the shred-bashing, but for whatever reason it didn't.

The point is, I disagree that GN is stifling. There can be, and is, some very opinionated discussion. But when it goes off topic or gets personal, it serves no good purpose.

Anyway, if Scott has found a place he likes better, so be it.

So, this is all YOUR fault! :evil: LOL!! Just kidding! :D

In rethinking my own time here, let me take this opportunity to thank the moderators and every individual who has posted, from the most experienced player to the newest of the newbies because I have learned so much from this forum in the past year. And it has been learned in an environment of civility and respect, although there have been a few "healthy" discussions between very knowledgeable and passionate participants.

Again let me say thank you to the moderators for their often under appreciated and always overlooked jobs. You have helped make this middle-aged beginner's dream of playing the guitar closer to a reality.

/Dwayne

It's good to be in the minority I guess even if I stand alone.

Slej,

I don't think you started it and I was only messing with you about Paul's song although I really don't like it but if you do that's cool.

Magaret,

In theory that sounds great but who really knows what another persons thresehold for criticism is when everyone treads gingerly on their comments.

Remember I'm not talking about flaming someone or making personal attacks on someone I'm talking about just talking about being free to comment that what I heard wasn't that good. Sometimes the truth hurts!

Nuno,

I heard your stuff and I thought it was pretty good, but my point is that even if you posted some really off timing, wrong note playing I doubt there would be anyone that would actually tell you that. And I don't think that it's the mods fault it's just the way this forum is.

I can't think of one time EVER that I've read a comment that something just wasn't that good...and beleive me I've heard some. Just curious why that is.

Maybe I can blame the way I think on my parents.

I can't think of one time EVER that I've read a comment that something just wasn't that good...and beleive me I've heard some. Just curious why that is.

Maybe I can blame the way I think on my parents.

After listening to one of those clips that "just wasn't that good", did you post your critique or did you leave it alone? If you left a critique, did you give your honest opinion? If you left it alone, why did you do that?

What I'm getting at is this: If you want to change the status quo you can't just ride along with the rest of the herd and say "well, nobody else is doing it, so I guess I'd better not, either, but I'm going to complain about it every chance I get until something changes". Put yourself out there and do it first. But, before you do, you have to ask yourself if you, personally, could gracefully accept that same criticism you are about to give to someone if it were directed toward you from someone else. A little praise goes a long way, but un-thought out criticism goes even further.

And, no fair blaming your parents!!! You have a mind of your own!!!

So, this is all YOUR fault! :evil: LOL!! Just kidding! :D

:lol:

Slej,
I don't think you started it and I was only messing with you about Paul's song although I really don't like it but if you do that's cool.

Oh no, LOL, I wasn't saying it was me or you who caused the ruckus, and I know you were only kidding around, but the other threads did evolve from that one which was so innocuous. Butterfly effect, I guess.

Nuno,

I heard your stuff and I thought it was pretty good
I disagree too! :lol:
but my point is that even if you posted some really off timing, wrong note playing I doubt there would be anyone that would actually tell you that. And I don't think that it's the mods fault it's just the way this forum is.

I can't think of one time EVER that I've read a comment that something just wasn't that good...and beleive me I've heard some. Just curious why that is.
Ok, I am relatively new here and I didn't listen and follow each post. It is possible. I said my experience with my stuff and my way to give my opinions. Sometimes I said "I'd improve such thing" because I want to receive the same comments for improving... in the other case... we say dorar la pildora... my dictionary says to sugar the pill.

Exactly, Nuno! As Mary Poppins said, "Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down".

I logged on to edit my post a bit because after thinking about I realized I had put too much emphasis on the moderation of this forum and not enough on my own frustrations, let me correct and clarify.

I just want to say up front and to make it perfectly clear I have the utmost respect for all the admins, mods and members on this forum, you provide a great place on the web and do it for no pay.

Most of the frustration that led to my post are related to me cutting two of my fretting hand fingers about 2 months ago, they are going to be fine but I havn't been able to play since then. Only a couple of people on the forum are aware of this. What I've been trying to do is read forums and stuff during this down time to keep me involved with guitar, the down side is that it just makes me want to play more.

I know what this site is about, one of the things that I've always loved about it is that I can log on and read posts with my kids looking over my shoulder. I also think people should spend a lot less time looking for something to be offended by, sometimes this is at odds with a site like this, but I know that going in so it's for me to deal with.

I also want to be clear, I never saw what the final posts were in that other thread, so I can't comment on that, I never post stuff just to get a reaction or to offend anyone, I try to be respectful to the people I come across here and in life, but I do speak my mind, I think you can do that without being disrespectful.

There are two other factors that have added to this, I just spent 10 days in a van on vacation with my inlaws, and I watched the Live Earth concerts, 15 hrs of someone telling me what light bulb to use will make me crazy.

But what probably drove me over the edge was during my down time I started reading Noteboats book :)

So maybe I'll just take a leave of absence for a bit until I can actually play again.

Thanks,

Scott

where was I for all this? two people left? who? when?

Just to add my twopennorth to the criticism debate - I enjoy listening to other people's music on here, and I always look for the good points in their songs, whether they're in Hear Here, the SSG, or the other songwriter's forum. What I try to do is offer constructive criticism - if there's something I don't like, I'll explain why. Some songs just aren't my cup of tea - I don't like every single thing Arjen posts, for example, but it's always interesting to see what he'll come up with next. I don't feel qualified to listen to metal and offer advice, I don't know enough about the genre....

I try to be fair, and in return expect that same fairness - if I post a song and someone points a flaw out to me, as has happened many times, I'll take that advice on board. If someone just plain doesn't like the song, or lyrics, not much I can do about it - but I'd still like to know why.

And that's why we post our songs and lyrics - to get feedback. To see what works and what doesn't. But remember - if you're reviewing someone else's music or lyrics, that person has put a lot into it. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is what we're all after!

:D :D :D

Vic

Well ..

Its a personal choice to join forums or leave forums , nothing more than asking yourself this question ..

Is this forum what I am looking for ?

If yes stay

If no please don't slam the door on your way out ..

No real need for a public debate on whats what ..

I stay because I have made very good friends , I get positive feedback
and its friendly ..
Ohh and I have learnt a thing or two along the way ..

Life is what you make it and so is GN

It's good to be in the minority I guess even if I stand alone.
Personally I see little value in being in the minority just for the sake of being in the minority. Some folks may see that as entitling them to bragging rights, but I don't share that view. On the other hand, standing up for what you believe in spite of being in the minority, now that I'll support as being worthwhile.
Magaret,

In theory that sounds great but who really knows what another persons thresehold for criticism is when everyone treads gingerly on their comments.
The critics on Hear Here and the songwriting forums don't inherently "know" each other's threshholds--they learn them over time. I have not been a frequent poster or critic on those forums, but I have done my share of reading there, and I have seen these relationships form and develop to the benefit of the parties involved.

They build relationships, and get to know each other's personalities, just like friends do in the "real world," and then they respect each other's individualities and idiosyncracies. It's kind of like parenting, or teaching, where you deal with each child according to their individual needs and personalities, not as a one-size-fits-all regiment.
Remember I'm not talking about flaming someone or making personal attacks on someone I'm talking about just talking about being free to comment that what I heard wasn't that good. Sometimes the truth hurts!

..........

I can't think of one time EVER that I've read a comment that something just wasn't that good...and beleive me I've heard some. Just curious why that is.
In my opinion, it is rarely, if ever, appropriate to tell someone that something "just wasn't that good." That tells them nothing other than that the speaker is insensitive, inarticulate, and thinks they speak for the entire world. None of those qualifies as constructive criticism, IMO.

Constructive criticism should take the shape of specific comments on specific aspects, and THAT is what I DO see plenty of in Hear Here and the songwriting forums. If you're not seeing those comments in those forums, you are not reading very closely. Sure, not EVERY piece gets specific, constructive critique, but those members who have taken the time to build relationships in those forums both give and receive positive, constructive criticism, and they also tactfully point out negatives to each other.

Yes, the truth sometimes hurts, but why does a negative comment have to be stated other than kindly and tactfully, unless your purpose is to hurt feelings or put someone down?

If you don't like a particular submission, IMO it would be much more appropriate to say, "I don't personally like it, or it's not my style of music, or it does nothing for me," as opposed to saying "It really wasn't very good," which is like making a global pronouncement, when in truth, all the world may not share your opinion.

As always, that's JMHO, because that's all I'm ever qualified to give.

Margaret