The TWINS ARE BORN!!! (UPDATE) Mama expecting TWINS!

.....a match to light your candles is called 'lucifer' in Dutch......

Lucifers - Lucys (or Lucies) for short - was also an English slang name for matches. Not used much these days, seems to have dropped out of usage. It's still in the Old Oxford Dictionary, though.

:D :D :D

Vic

Lucian, Lucius, etc. are also said to derive from Lucanus, meaning a person from that province in southern Italy.

(Those who've worked on British sports cars and motorcycles would never associate the name Lucas with light!)

I used to work at a hospital with nuns . we had a nursing supervisor named Sister Lucy. We mostly referred to her as Sister Lucifer. she was very old school!! Kind of like the nun in the Blues Brothers :twisted:

Lucian, Lucius, etc. are also said to derive from Lucanus, meaning a person from that province in southern Italy.

(Those who've worked on British sports cars and motorcycles would never associate the name Lucas with light!)

Hmmmmmmmm.......
I'm going to go-ahead and disagree with the first part.

Lucanus is an actual name - Marcus Annaeus Lucanus.... Roman Poet, better known to us in English as Lucan.
(Scorpio - Born in Hispania Baetica, Nov. 3rd, 39 AD.... My birthday is Nov. 2nd, and I'm 39 :P )

Lucanus is also the genus of a beetle.

The Province in Southern Italy that you refer to is: Lucania.
And, 'People from that province in southern Italy' were known as: Lucanians
Not Lucius' - Sorry.
Those names all derive from the Latin 'Light'.

I will agree with you on the Lucas Electrics though :wink:

Ken

ps -
If you are thinking that Lucanians is the English version, and that Lucanus is the Latin/Roman version, consider that
Lucius also has that suffix.... I believe that Lux is the Latin word for light, making it Luxius.
Say it when you're drunk, and you get Lucius :D
So - Lucanus = From Lucania
Lucius = From Light

Here's just the first of many sites referring to the Lucanian place origin of the various forms of the Luke name: http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Luke
Ran across this recently while preparing a lesson on Luke the Evangelist. (The principal inspiration for that name in Western cultures.) His name in Greek transliterated was Loukos, said to be from the Latin Lucus, contracted from Lucanus, meaning a person from Lucania in southern Italy. Popular name among the Romans at that time.
And our disagreement over historical derivations and meanings of a name like Lucius points out a problem with giving names based on their meaning in a "dead" language. In those days name meanings weren't in some "secret code" as it were. If they wanted to name a kid "Bringer of Light," that's what they did in plain language everyone would understand. I imagine the prophet Isaiah's kids got a hard time from the other kids about their names! Or Hosea's! Anyone remember the news when Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes named their baby girl Suri? They tried to pass that off as meaning "princess," like Sarah, but reporters came up with several sources of Suri from various ancient languages with different meanings.

Well, I am sorry Ric but I'm still going to disagree with you on this.
And here's why:

Firstly, you say that names were not written in secret code back then, and continue on to say that names derived from 'Man From Lucania' were 'popular names' among the Romans at the time....?
A bit contridictory, don't you think?

Why would naming your kid 'Man from Lucania' be a popular thing to do?
(Even if they weren't from Lucania :? )

Lucania, a Southern Italian Province, was gone in BC times.
You're going to tell me that some insignificant, defunct province is going to carry that much weight?
Hard to believe.

Next, you're telling me that Luke the Evangilist's name was derived from the Greek 'Loukos'....
Okay, I'm in agreement with that;
Luke the Evangilist was of Greek origin (He was Greek).

Then you say that your research on 'thinkbabynames.com' told you that the Greek name Loukus came from the Latin Lucas (or Lucius even).... Which came from Lucanus, which means "Man from Lucania"....
Are you serious....? :P

I'm going to say that this is 'Busted' right here on the grounds that Greek is a MUCH older language than Latin.
Therefore, I'm going to have to say that a Greek name would NOT come from a Latin word/name.
More likely the other way around as Rome stole just about everything from ancient Greek civilization.

And I wont believe for a second that the Roman's 'corrupted' or altered the Greek language in any way.
Most well educated Romans spoke both Latin, and Greek, as MANY of the books of the time were written in Greek.
(No printing presses you know)

Still having a hard time believing that Lucius (and that ilk) comes from the Latin word for light....????
Well, 'Lux' is one way to say Light in Latin;
'Lucis' is another - the Latin generative case, meaning 'LIGHT'.

And are you going to tell me that 'Modern' English words like 'Lucid' also mean 'From Lucania'????
No doubt because Lucanian's were so darn smart, right?
Lucania was known as the clear thinking capital of Ancient Rome :wink:

No.

Lucid comes from the Latin word 'Lucere'.... Meaning - To Shine :D
And 'Lucidus' - Full of LIGHT :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

Ken

.....a match to light your candles is called 'lucifer' in Dutch......

Lucifers - Lucys (or Lucies) for short - was also an English slang name for matches. Not used much these days, seems to have dropped out of usage.
Vic

My only reference to that use of Lucifer is from the lyrics of a WW2 era song. It also contains other words whose usage has changed drastically in the last 90 years.

And, back to themed names, there are a pair of twins in my son's school named Melody and Harmony. Seems like a not-uncommon thing to do.

My wife has a pair of nephews named Christian and Damien. How's that for a theme. :roll:

Firstly, you say that names were not written in secret code back then, and continue on to say that names derived from 'Man From Lucania' were 'popular names' among the Romans at the time....?
A bit contridictory, don't you think?

You forget that Romans actually spoke Latin. It wasnt secret code, it was their language. Lucifer means Bringer of Light, it';s not code. It's in the dictionary. Same with other names.
Why would naming your kid 'Man from Lucania' be a popular thing to do?

Regionality is important in European culture, and the division between South and North Italy is crucial in Italian/Roman culture. Naming yourself after the place of original of your family is common practice, a practice restored by Napoleon after the midleages so it's still that way here. Lucius is nominativus singularis and as such cannot be based on Lux. Lucis would mean 'of light' but lucius would not, Latin simply doesnt work that way.

Firstly, you say that names were not written in secret code back then, and continue on to say that names derived from 'Man From Lucania' were 'popular names' among the Romans at the time....?
A bit contridictory, don't you think?

You forget that Romans actually spoke Latin. It wasnt secret code, it was their language. Lucifer means Bringer of Light, it';s not code. It's in the dictionary. Same with other names.
Why would naming your kid 'Man from Lucania' be a popular thing to do?

Regionality is important in European culture, and the division between South and North Italy is crucial in Italian/Roman culture. Naming yourself after the place of original of your family is common practice, a practice restored by Napoleon after the midleages so it's still that way here. Lucius is nominativus singularis and as such cannot be based on Lux. Lucis would mean 'of light' but lucius would not, Latin simply doesnt work that way.

I'm sorry Arjen.... Hard to get ones meaning across with writen words sometimes :)

What I meant in the first part was that, yes - perhaps Lucanus meant 'From Lucania'.... And to say that in Latin would have meaning (ie. Hey! I'm from Lucania).
But to name people who were NOT from Lucania: Lucius, would mean that it has become something other than the reason that Ric argued for.
Meaning that they were calling people 'Man From Lucania' who in fact were not from there.... so it became just a popular name with NO meaning.... which is not what Ric argued for - Thus; Contradictory.

And I understand the regional importance of names.... Usually Last names hold that meaning.
(Sort of like Irish last names, ie. O'Brian.... 'O' meaning 'OF' etc....)

And my Lux - Luxius bit was my feeble attempt at tension breaking, tongue-in-cheek humor :wink:

Ken

Satan is called Lucifer in the bible.

Isaiah 14:12-15: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”

Nothing's busted about that, CitizenNoir. Loukos wasn't a known Greek name before the Romans conquered the Greeks and that whole area of the world. It was a Hellenized spelling of the Latin name Lucus. Under Roman rule and culture, a Roman sounding name was surely a useful thing to have. Names that sound good to people become popular for lots of reasons. Meanings aren't high among them, I suspect. How many people today have named their daughters Brandy? Is it because they all think so much of that distilled beverage? How about Heather? Are they all wannabe dwellers on the heath? It's interesting to see the crops of babies named after a popular soap opera character, like all the girls named Harley a few years back. And they just go in fashions like Bailey and Kennedy of late. Don't know why those Irish surnames have become such popular girl's names. As for thinkbabynames.com, it was just one quick reference. Use your friend Google and you'll turn up a whole lot of sites with more extensive discussion of the name's history. And I'm not claiming in any way to have discovered this, or to be an expert on names. I am pointing out that there are solid references to "man from Lucania" as the origin for the various forms of the Luke name, and while "Light" seems to be another explanation that I have found references for as well, it's ambiguous. To the giver(s) of the name it means what it means to him/her/them, but it may not be understood that way to someone else, if they give it any thought at all, which mighty few ever will. The real point of the whole discussion is that names are important to people's self-perceptions and to how others perceive them, and shouldn't be given without serious consideration to that.

Satan is called Lucifer in the bible.

Isaiah 14:12-15: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”

That's just your intepretation of it. Who or what is meant with Lucifer in this passage is completely up to the reader, it could very easily refer to the moon. (or the sun :twisted: ) The battle of the moon vs the sun as a metaphor for good vs evil was very common in the time and place the old testament came into being, and the old testament borrowed heavility from local textbooks and folk mythology.

Well Ric, I'm glad you finally see it my way and admit that I am right :D
Otherwise, I would have to, from now on, tell everyone that Hel* is in a defunct southern Italian province,
because after all, everyone knows that Lucifer (the Devil) is from Lucania!
LOL!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

J/K!

Seriously - I think that the actual debate is over the name Luke.
Luke as a stand alone name may very well be rooted in Lucania.
Luke as a truncated version of Lucius - well.... Latin for Light.

Then again, there is Luke Skywalker who made his debut in an episode called - A New Hope.
Which to me would be suggestive of 'Bringer of Light'
Especially vs. Darth Vader and 'The Dark Side'....

But, that was a long time ago.... in a galaxie (old Ford reference) far far away.
And I think that predates even the Greek language :wink:

Oh, and what I said of Lucania, and Lucanus were from the text of an actual encyclopedia :)
Yes, I still do read books :D

Now - I am finished hi-jacking this thread....
Your final rebttal sir! :wink:

Ken

I already gave it above. I'm done.

Back in the late 60's I left junior school and went to Grammar School - new experience for me, I'd never caught a bus before to school - it hadn't been more than a 10-minute walk. All of a sudden, I have to get up an hour earlier and get to St. Helens - roughly five miles away and then get ANOTHER bus - a 15-minute ride - to school.

I noticed all the St. Helens bus had a coat of arms and motto on them - wasn't very long (if I remember correctly, the second day of Latin) before the Latin teacher pointed out the motto and explained it for us - Ex Terra Lucem, which meant "From the Earth, light..." - St Helens boasted about 14-15 mines back then, which all closed down in the 80's. Big coal mining industry. So Lucem - Latin noun for light? I really don't recall. Sad.

Don't remember much Latin these days - I remember "Amo, amas, amat; amamus, amatis, amant" from the very first day...and little snatches of the old Latin Mass. Dominus Vobiscum - Eta, Missa Est - and, of course, Oh Come All Ye Faithful - Adeste, Fideles. Learned a lot of hymns in Latin - I do wish I'd listened more to the music teachers, though. Getting banned from music classes because of trying to play powerchords on a violin might have been very rock'n'roll - I always did think LOUD was good. Even though I wouldn't have recognised a powerchord from a power cable back then.....

Hmm....brain cells seem to be pretty active tonight. Both of them. Better get to bed before I burn 'em out..... and forget all the French and German!

Bon nuit, Guten Tag! Or in Lancashire dialect - "Ah'll sithee't morrer." (I'll see you tomorrow....)

:D :D :D

vic