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What do you all think about the Gibson raids?

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(@neztok)
Estimable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 152
Topic starter  

http://youtu.be/O_-taqM5Sk0

According to Gibson's CEO, the FEDS believe that anybody that sells a guitar from Gibson (including you) can be arrested. :?


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(@kent_eh)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1885
 

So the government can conduct a raid against a company, seize property and not file charges, nor charge that company with any offence?

And not for violation of a law in the USA, but for an alledged violation of other countries' laws? even without a formal complaint from that other country?

Really?

Wow.

What about all the other American companies that use the same wood from the same source countries?

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


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(@imalone)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 267
 

I think the point of view you get from Gibson's Youtube channel might be unsurprisingly sympathetic to Gibson.


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(@neztok)
Estimable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 152
Topic starter  

Who else would we be sympathetic to? We're guitar players.


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(@ghost)
Prominent Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 833
 

Maybe the FEDs were trying to find something else and used the Lacey Act as an excuse to search the Gibson factory. Quite disturbing.

"If I had a time machine, I'd go back and tell me to practise that bloody guitar!" -Vic Lewis

Everything is 42..... again.


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(@trguitar)
Famed Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3711
 

If the feds have shut down the factory, what will happen to the price of a Gibson guitar?

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


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(@imalone)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 267
 

I think the point of view you get from Gibson's Youtube channel might be unsurprisingly sympathetic to Gibson.

Who else would we be sympathetic to? We're guitar players.

I didn't say, I just suggested don't expect Gibson to make themselves out to be anything less than saints. Still, they're a big company so I'm sure they'll figure out how to handle this eventually, other manufacturers seem to.


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(@greybeard)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5899
 

So, what happens if/when Gibson get wood back from the first raid and it has not been kept in adequate conditions? How much can Gibson sue the Govt for? Surely they'll demand not just reparation, but punitive damages for damaging Gibson's business.

I would think that Gibson will make the damages huge - they'll be planning for getting their stuff back from the 2nd raid.

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN


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(@kent_eh)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1885
 

I think the point of view you get from Gibson's Youtube channel might be unsurprisingly sympathetic to Gibson.

Who else would we be sympathetic to? We're guitar players.

I didn't say, I just suggested don't expect Gibson to make themselves out to be anything less than saints. Still, they're a big company so I'm sure they'll figure out how to handle this eventually, other manufacturers seem to.

It's the only point of view that's available.
The "other side" appears to not be interested in talking to anyone, including Gibson.

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


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(@katmetal)
Honorable Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 727
 

Statement from Gibson's site -

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/

I don't really understand why the U.S. Govt. is singling Gibson out on this & using bullying tactics...

I don't know where I was in '09, but I completely missed hearing about the first raid. I personally hope Gibson rounds up a "dream team" of lawyers & sues the gov't. for every penny they can get.


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(@nicktorres)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5468

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(@greybeard)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5899
 

Nick,
that item opens the question of when Martin will be raided. Martin imported Malagasy woods and the Lacey act is retroactive - Martin must now be raided, unless the Govt has another agenda.

Secondly, the article rather glosses over the raid in 2009. No charges have been brought, nearly 2 years after the raid. Gibson don't appear to have been told whether they have any actual charge to answer or not.

"There are emails which seem to indicate..." is pretty thin ice to be skating on, in a democracy.

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN


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(@kent_eh)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1885
 

Sounds like some collateral damage from a well intentioned, but poorly written law.
From the article that Nick linked to:
Nashville's George Gruhn is one of the world's top dealers of old guitars, banjos and other rare stringed instruments. "It's a nightmare," he says. "I can't help it if they used Brazilian rosewood on almost every guitar made prior to 1970. I'm not contributing to cutting down Brazilian rosewood today."

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


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(@nicktorres)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5468
 

I'm not saying I agree, just that I think the NPR article is a bit more balanced than Gibson's take on events.


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(@aragorn)
Trusted Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 54
 

Oh my God these are strange times we live in. Armed federal agents raiding a guitar company over technicalities regarding it's wood. The Department of Education actually has it's own swat teams if you can believe it ( http://reason.com/blog/2011/06/08/dept-of-education-swat-team-up ). EIA head Andrea Johnson says "this is a new normal." Indeed. Line up to your right. One armband each.


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