^^Of course, but here are the variables.
Lets say there were no Beatles. Just the Kinks. Very similar, you could say. Would we be where we are now? I don't think so. The Beatles were bigger, had a far larger impact, The Kinks were damn good but nothing like The Beatles. The Kinks would have been "the big thing" at the time, but would the impact have been as large in the long run? I doubt it.
And Hendrix. Lets say he died at 7 years old. Another person might do what he did in say...1972. Would it have been as good? Would it have made a huge impact? I don't know, it's tough to say.
You can't just say "someone else would have done it" because there are too many variables involved.
And on another note, I hate Van Halen outside of just a few songs.
BTW, "iliketheguitar", you have "My Chemical Romance" in your avatar. They are one of the big reasons for bad music of this era. You also say "Without the music of the sixties and seventies, we'd all be loosing to do-op or something like that. Beethoven the VIII would be my next door neighbor." No, just no. We don't know where we'd be now.
Buckethead is someone who deserves more credit in todays world. Yea, yea, he wears a bucket and a mask (which is stupid), but he combines the elements of so many different genres of music into his guitar playing, it's amazing.
kevin,
I think your rational is alittle flawed. if the Beatles weren't around things would have been totally different. You can't just take them out of the equation and assume everthing else would have been the same it wouldn't have. But it's all speculation.
I think my point is more like, whether or not the Beatles or Hendrix was around we'd still pretty much be in the same place we are now. They are just pieces of a large puzzle.
If we lost WWII everything including music might be totally different you never know.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
I disagree with the whole "if so and so didn't do it then someone else woould have" to be honest its one of the most bogus arguments I've ever heard, it's so easy and BTW makes people who havn't put in the time and effort to be truely great at something feel good about themselves. To totally disrespect the achievments of someone who impacts the world with a throw away sentence like "someone else would have done it" is pretty thoughtless.
If Motzart had not done what he did someone else would have?
If Michelangelo had not painted the Sistine Chapel someone else would have?
If the Beatles had not done it would all the "great" bands that were hiding in the shadows come forward? (why they are hiding I don't know)
If Page, Clapton, Hendrix all didn't exist where are all the other guitarists who were doing what they were doing?, where are all the other ones who sound just like them? and where were they during the time frame of that influential era?
This list could go on and on.
I'm not a big Hendrix fan but I do think he was an amazing guitarist who influenced future guitarists in a big way.
I'm not a fan of Kurt Cobain's guitar playing, but he defined a genre and a generation, he gets big credit for that.
I just think it's way to easy for people who have not achieved greatness to dismiss greatness.
Just my opinion and meant in a general way, not directed and any one person. :)
Scott
I havn't found my tone yet, and I have no mojo....but I'm working on it :)
BTW, "iliketheguitar", you have "My Chemical Romance" in your avatar. They are one of the big reasons for bad music of this era.
I didn't like My Chemical Romance at first but they kind of grew on me. They have a lot of the same heavy driving guitars as the grunge I like. Well, a lot of emo rock does. But they take it one step further. Most grunge, or rock in general only talked about anger. With emo, you have the artists singing other emotions as well.
sdolsay,
I think and it's only my opinion your just as wrong. So if the person that discovered electricity didn't do it then no one would have? Or the caveman that invented the wheel, if they didn't know one else would have? Come on let's not be so naive.
I realize music isn't exactly the same but similar enough. Would there be a Beatles, maybe not an exact replica but there would be some band that would have stepped up and filled those shoes. Were they innovative, sure they were, were the a major force of course, are they the only ones that could have done that..no, they just happened to be the ones that did. they didn't invent music or electric guitars or pop music or rock and roll they just gave it a different twist, to think no one else could have done that to me is incorrect.
it's not that I don't respect what they did, maybe I'm just not that much in awe of what they did. The Beatles didn't invent music or discover it, they just played it in a new way for the time, which is an acheivement, but someone would have done something similar sooner or later. I was never a huge Beatles fan so there "genius" doesn't hit home with me that much. i think their true talent was in the songwriting, a fact that they were able to write so many popular songs, which to me were pretty much pop is fairly amazing.
Everything is built on the past so like i said before it's natural to say that so and so influneced a band of today. Of course they did because the artists today had the ability to hear them. Every aspect of your life including the music you play is influenced by your past experiences and what has come before you.
In the year 2150, do you think a band is going to say they were influenced by the Beatles? Maybe but I doubt it, they are going to reference some band that played in 2120 or something the Beatles will be a footnote of the past
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
The 60s and 70s were the two most important decades for music in the 20th century. So many genres of music were "created" during this era. If so ome of these artists never did what they did, we wouldn't be where we are now.
I have to disagree with this. The music of the 60's and 70's was based on the "modern" blues that was created in the 20's/30's most notably by Robert Johnson. This was later electrified in the postwar era in Chicago. Without this the music of the 60's and 70's wouldn't have existed.
All decades and generations build on what went before. None of it is wholly original. We all take things that already exist and combine them in new ways or use new tools to interpret them.
"Bernard of Chartres used to say that we are like dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, so that we can see more than they, and things at a greater distance, not by virtue of any sharpness on sight on our part, or any physical distinction, but because we are carried high and raised up by their giant size." John of Salisbury in the Metalogicon, 1159AD
Pop music is about stealing pocket money from children. - Ian Anderson
Cnev,
I don't think using inventions as examples is correct, inventions are made because of need, ie: someone is trying to make things easier for themselves usually, the wheel is an example. Music is much different, art is different. Michelanglo painting the Sisteen didn't do much for me, but Edison inventing the light bulb did. So I don't think I'm all that naive, actually if I let people who really know me read this they would laugh, cos I'm known as being pretty cynical :)
I guess my point(missed of course) is there "were" bands out there trying, there "were" guitarists out there trying to be the best, the most influential, the most popular, these people did it.
Trying and failing will always come in second to trying and doing.
I'm 43 years old, I've been to maybe 100+ concerts, I saw Clapton last week at age 60+ whatever he is now, he says that he has lost something with age, it scares me to think how good he used to be, the fluidity he played with, the technical talent he has, it was amazing.
There are reasons certain performers rise to the top, it isn't because they are only as good as the people who didn't.
Scott
Scott
I havn't found my tone yet, and I have no mojo....but I'm working on it :)
I've kinda lost track of the whole debate here but it had something to do with the 60 and 70 music being crap and then other people sayng it was the most influencial. every era has had an influenceon the next generation that's just the way it goes the following generation builds on the past, so of course the 60 and 70's had an influence just as did the 30's and 40's and 80's and 90's and it will keep on going forever.
sdolsay - what exactly did the Beatles do or Hendrix do that no one else could? It's like saying no one would ever break the home run record and no BBonds will do it this year. Do you think no one would ever try playing with their teeth like Hendrix? Or with crazy feedback and out of tune bends? It is all within the capability of many guitar players.
Or EVH, no one taps like him? I'm sure someday there will be someone if there isn't already will be better or at least equally as good.
I guess everything has to be looked at in the context of the time they played. For their time Beatles were innovative and fresh at that time.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
The 60s and 70s were just two decades. With a few billion people stuck on this planet you can safely bet there was a lot of talent and skill around, and a lot of crap as well. Same as with any other time period. Apart from taste, if you can't find anything worthwhile in a two-decade time-span then you're just ignorant. But most importantly, who gives a crap about what other people think or don't think about classic rock. If I had to wet my pants every time a friend commented on my taste then I would be out of clean pants in a day.
Right on Sleutelbos, you need any papertowels?
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
at last the UN can offer assistance!
#4491....
BTW, "iliketheguitar", you have "My Chemical Romance" in your avatar. They are one of the big reasons for bad music of this era. You also say "Without the music of the sixties and seventies, we'd all be loosing to do-op or something like that. Beethoven the VIII would be my next door neighbor." No, just no. We don't know where we'd be now.
I was trying to point out that we wouldn't know where we would be at with that statement. BTW when I put loosing I meant listening. Also MCR is a lot better than most of the other stuff out there, and they happen to be one of my most favorite bands.
Sitting here staring at the computer screen I had a revelation: No one will ever agree, EVER. This argument will go on for eternity and we still won't agree.
And just for the record, I never said the the sixties and seventies were the better than any other decade, but in my first post I simply said "Where would we be without the sixties and seventies."
Ilikeguitar,
Your 100% correct there will never be any agreemen to any of this so we all need to agree to disagree
I think it would be interesting to do a poll and see what music is preferred by each person and I think in general it would breal out similar to chronological age.
People over 40 in general will list Classic rock as their prefered music, 30 - 40 Hair metal maybe some grunge, under 30 - alternative punk etc.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
"Where would we be without the sixties and seventies."
Maybe somewhere else. Maybe that would have been better, maybe not. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered at all and things would have been the same. Or maybe green aliens would have invaded the earth to confiscate all doorknobs. It just doesn't matter. The only thing that really matters is: can you find something enjoyable in that time period? If so, great. If not, move to another decade or look harder, both will probably yield some result. Or maybe not, but that's hardly my problem. :D
And thanks for the assistence, I always knew I can rely on GN when it comes to personal hygene. :)
No one should leave home without their Depends!
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
