Dispelling a Myth

Quite frankly, I can't really think of a more boring subject offhand, nor one that has been thrashed out at great length more often. Nor one less productive. Jeez, I'm falling asleep just typing this........

Everyone has his or her own tastes and the cool thing is that they often change during the course of one's lifetime. Use a discussion like this to promote something and help people learn
Hear, hear!! Thank you, David.

Since the names Satriani, Vai, Malmsteen, Huff, Moore and others have come up, maybe I can slip out of the closet and ask some legitimate questions. I honestly had never heard of most of these people until I started learning guitar and reading guitar magazines, websites, etc. Since they are so often named as great guitarists, I am curious and want to expand my knowledge of their music.

"Always With Me, Always With You" was mentioned as a good one to listen to by ? (I lost track of whose it was).

Can someone name just a couple specific tunes we can listen to, that are representative of the best work by these guitarists? Some of us obviously need edjacatin'.

Thx!

Margaret

Most of these guys were big in the 80's, although Stevie Vai is still considered relatively current.

I consider myself sometwhat of a metalhead, but I've never heard of Huff. The others are all great guitars players, with different styles.

I only started playing guitar a few years ago, but before that I was an avid air-guitar player and I can't explain to you how much of a slap in the face of reality it was when I first picked up the guitar. Quite frankly, anyone who can play in front of 10 people and not make any major mistakes is pretty good in my estimation. Since that realization I've run into a ton of guitar players, teachers, new friends, etc... and there is NO shortage of really talented and proficient guitar players in the world. Go to any local dive on a Friday and you will probably see a really good guitar player...

I guess my point is... these guys are all good, and have different styles. I, in fact, think Vai is overrated because he is spelled out as a god much more than Satriani (from what I can tell anyway). And while I like some of Vai's stuff (I like his more normal stuff, like "Frank") I don't look at him to emulate. Why? I'm just not into all his outer-cosmic crap. Anyway, sounds like a pretty good testament to how good Satriani is - as a musician and a teacher - that both Hammett (didn't know that) and Vai studied under him, don't you think?

OWA just google whatever you don't know ! :D

*YAWN*

Jason

Come on now guys Malmsteen could take Vai easily. He has to outweigh him by 100 pounds.

I think I could handle them both pretty easily as long as it's one at a time.

I Increase like my that post Steve count Vai by person one.

Respectfully
Geoo

I think there was some kind of subliminal message in that...

Back to the topic this whole thing seems to be what everone since the beginning of any music folder debates. It's like in the art folders what always comes up is the "what is art" debate and it is rehashed a million-gabajillion times. This on the other hand is essentially the speedvsfeel debate. Satriani is hardly overrated as no one I know that isn't a guitar player has ever heard of him and most people I know think vai is too weird. I think we are arguing over a non-issue. No one cares who is better in the end.

I am the best guitar player in my house :wink:

I honestly had never heard of most of these people until I started learning guitar and reading guitar magazines, websites, etc.

That's a really good point.

We often hear music that we don't like at first... and then as our ability to listen and understand improves, we end up liking it a lot - Ornette Coleman is a good example for me personally. When I heard him it just sounded noisy; now I understand what he was doing, and I find it very creative.

So I discovered maybe there's music I don't like because it isn't any good musically (highly subjective, I know), and music I don't like because I'm not good enough for the music. If the trouble is me, I want to fix that, so the problem is how to sort out which half is worth spending time on.

So I've developed a personal yardstick. When someone raves about a guitarist like Yngwie, I ask if they play guitar. If everyone who raves about Yngwie is also a guitar player, that tells me he's admired because of technical chops rather than musical ones. But if some of the fans play bass, others sax, others piano... I figure there must be something musical there that's worth notice.

I've found that the technical chops thing can be worth a looking-at (as opposed to a listening-to) and I'll probably be very impressed. When I see Michael Angelo Batio playing guitar equally well left-handed or right, on some level I dig that - he's clearly spent a lot of hours learning something that makes a very flashy stage presentation. I appreciate what he's done.

But when I choose what to put on the CD player, I'm not seeing the stage presentation... I'm wanting the aural stuff. So if the only place I hear of a guitarist is in guitar magazines, I'll pass, or maybe just see if I can borrow a video to see what the fuss is about.

But if I'm hearing about a guitarist from multiple channels, I'll tune in.

It's not just guitarists who get that technical tunnel vision. Drummers, for instance, talk about Mike Mangini. I studied percussion in college, and I've seen Mike play personally. He has fabulous technique, no question. But he's not exactly sought after for session work... and there's a reason: the chops are technical more than musical :)

NoteBoat wrote: When someone raves about a guitarist like Yngwie, I ask if they play guitar. If everyone who raves about Yngwie is also a guitar player, that tells me he's admired because of technical chops rather than musical ones. But if some of the fans play bass, others sax, others piano... I figure there must be something musical there that's worth notice.

Great point. It had bugged me subconsciously, wondering why I had never heard of these guys in my pre-guitar (yet very musically-oriented) years.

NoteBoat: But when I choose what to put on the CD player, I'm not seeing the stage presentation... I'm wanting the aural stuff.

Another great point. Think I'll put on "Werewolves of London" just now. Love that silly song! :D

Margaret

I am the best guitar player in my house :wink:

Well , i am the ONLY guitar player in my entire family. :D (and they tell me , i am not a bad one , even though they don't listen to english songs )

Everyone has his or her own tastes and the cool thing is that they often change during the course of one's lifetime. Use a discussion like this to promote something and help people learn
Hear, hear!! Thank you, David.

Since the names Satriani, Vai, Malmsteen, Huff, Moore and others have come up, maybe I can slip out of the closet and ask some legitimate questions. I honestly had never heard of most of these people until I started learning guitar and reading guitar magazines, websites, etc. Since they are so often named as great guitarists, I am curious and want to expand my knowledge of their music.

"Always With Me, Always With You" was mentioned as a good one to listen to by ? (I lost track of whose it was).

Can someone name just a couple specific tunes we can listen to, that are representative of the best work by these guitarists? Some of us obviously need edjacatin'.

Thx!

Margaret
Dan Huff was perhaps best known for his Vocal/Guitar in the band Giant. They weren't incredibly successful as a band but enjoyed some brief commercial success. He has sessioned for numerous pop and country artists, from Madonna & Mariah Carey, to producing Megadeth and more recently Faith Hill, Tim McGraw & Keith Urban. Dann had and still has an amazing musical ability and I chose to mention him because he is very humble indeed for a man with such a wide array of talents.

In contrast with Satriani who I personally find conceited, and during in his day was voted by many musicians polls as 'guitarist of the year' etc etc. I too find some of Vai's work a little tiresome, and not all of Malmsteen's neo-classical compositions float my boat- it can be very boring.

Vinnie Moore I mentioned also because he his an awesome player, but he has incredible feel, so to whoever mentioned this was a speed vs feel argument, they misunderstood. Listen to Vinnie's 'Rain', it's beautifully melodic, yet listen to 'Defying Gravity' and he's a speed picking monster, true versatility.

My influences; Edward Van Halen, Alan Holdsworth, Brett Garsed, Al di Meola, Stanley Jordan, Steve Lukather, Dann Huff, Marty Friedman, Vito Biratta, Warren DiMartini, Neal Schon, Jason Becker, George Benson, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert, Vinnie Moore, Jimmy Page, John Sykes, Michael Lee Firkins, Kane Roberts, Reb Beach, Jake E Lee, Rhandy Rhoads, Brad Gillis......Ricthie Kotzen....the list is huge, but if any new players have a keen interest in hearing very good technically proficient players check them out or contact me and I can share some files.

OK, I'll play...

Steve Miller (The Joker) was a family friend and student of Les Paul...

One of my favorite bass players is Kevin McCormack, who few people know by name. You probably know his work...

A famous blues guitarist once said something like: "It's not the number of notes you play in a song, it's whether they are the right notes at the right time." Arrggh, who said that first?

I still think EVH has the best balance of speed and melody.

-Laz

EVH = Eddie Van Halen

I don't even know what technical skill is. As in, what it even means. I had the guitar at a friends house and was playing a solo then looked up and started talking to my friend, during which time I hadn't stopped playing. I had played it soooooo many times that it was burned into my brain and I could play without even thinking. I've also seen many posts on here about doing a particular chord change over and over and eventually you can do that without thinking as well.

So, how can something be technically difficult if it's second nature? I mean, you could look and how long it takes to become second nature but that varies on many factors. How long have you been playing? What do you konw how to do already? But chances are, no matter what level you are at, or how much 'talent' you have, if you want to learn something badly enough, you will. Therefore, the only difference between a skill I can do and one I can't isn't talent or if I'm "physically capable," it's practice.

So what is a techincally skilled guitarist? Someone that is 'physically capable?' Someone naturally better? Well they could be naturally better, hard to say. But in my opnion, a 'technically skilled guitarist' is someone who chose to learn a bunch of skills either because the need to learn them arose or they were just curious. As for the rest, maybe they are still learning, or maybe they are happy where they are. Does that make them any less of a musician or artist? I personally don't think so.