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Do looks matter?

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(@grungesunset)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 342
Topic starter  

We've discussed whether or the looks of a guitar matter or not but what about the looks of the guitarist? Simon Cowell says it's not just about the music but what does GN think? Picture the scenario below:

You're holding auditions for a guitarist in your blues band. You've seen several auditions already. Some have made the no pile and others have made the maybe pile. The pile in which you want to see who else shows up before making a decision. Your next canidate comes in. You figure she has to be young. Late teens, early 20's. She has tourquiose hair (dyed obviously), is dressed in leather and has enough piercings you could make a small statue of her if you smelted down all the metal. Her guitar is one of those death metal axes, pointy enough to slay a dragon faster than you can say "knight in shining armour." However, she definitely demonstrates she can play the blues when she starts playing. She leaves the audition and you put in the the maybe pile.

With this scenario in mind:

1. What would your impressions be when she firsts walks into the room?
2. What would your impressions be after the audition?
3. Would her being in the band have a positive or negative affect on the audience's perception of the band? If any at all?
4. Would the way she looks be a deciding factor for you?
5. Do looks matter?

Feel free to be honest. This is a scenario I made up so there is nothing personal. I guess this is more about politics in music than anything but it's an interesting topic so I'm looking forward to see what people think.

"In what, twisted universe does mastering Eddie Van Halen's two handed arpeggio technique count as ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?!" - Dr Gregory House


   
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(@chris-c)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Hi,

YES - looks do matter. If you perform in public you're in the entertainment business and looks are undoubtedly a big deal. That doesn't mean you have the same looks as would be required for, say, a fashion model but you do need to have some sort of image to project, and be aware what it is. Can you imagine somebody trying to front a grunge or heavy metal band looking like Bill Gates? Clothes, hair, general image... the professional organisations have whole departments to work on such things. :)

Cheers,

Chris


   
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(@dan-t)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5044
 

1. What would your impressions be when she firsts walks into the room? - I'm auditioning for a blues guitarist. I think this metal head is in the wrong place!
2. What would your impressions be after the audition? Sweet, she plays the blues! She's definitely in the running.
3. Would her being in the band have a positive or negative affect on the audience's perception of the band? If any at all? I think the audience might think the same thing I did at fist, ("she's in the wrong band"), but after they heard her play, I don't think they would care what she looks like.
4. Would the way she looks be a deciding factor for you? No. I would judge based on musical ability.
5. Do looks matter? Yes & no. Some people are closed minded, so you'll always run into that.

"The only way I know that guarantees no mistakes is not to play and that's simply not an option". David Hodge


   
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(@citizennoir)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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It wouldn't matter to me - I'd take her in a second!
Call the blues band 'Mary Brown' (after the 'Reckless Youth' section of the movie Amazon Women on the Moon).
Everyone would think she was Mary.... kinda like Pink Floyd (oh by the way.... which one's Pink? :roll: )

Speaking of Floyd - Syd was a bit of a standout in the early days.

The Doors - Big contrast between Morrison and the suit with sandals wearing Manzarek.
Not to mention having a Jazz drummer, flamenco guitarist, poet, and piano player in one band together.

I could picture a metal band wearing suits and looking like Bill Gates (sorry Chris :wink: )
It couldn't be called Grunge, or the suits would have to be plaid pattern!

If AC/DC can have a guitarist that wears a child's school suit all the time (is that what that is?).

And there was the Talking Heads - a new wave band (I believe), they all wore suits.

Basically, I think you could make anything a good gimmick.

Ken

"The man who has begun to live more seriously within
begins to live more simply without"
-Ernest Hemingway

"A genuine individual is an outright nuisance in a factory"
-Orson Welles


   
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(@gnease)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

I

And there was the Talking Heads - a new wave band (I believe), they all wore suits.

Ken

you paint my favorite 70s-90s band with a monochrome palate. Byrne wore the Big Suit (during a period) and regular suits sometimes.. the others varied. lots of Hawaiian shirts too.

if we are talking unpictured recorded music -- doesn't matter.

in performance and media personae, it certainly does matter. if a band is ugly, they better be good at ugly and playing the right music for ugly ... or make ugly their own in some dirty/cool/sexy/weirdoverthetop in some way: Stones, AC/DC, Twisted Sister were successful at it. Cheap Trick successfully made fun of it using a goofy split image. Atlanta Rhythm Section (who???): great studio musicians who were a horrible looking band and probably suffered for it. they were scary andnotinagoodway.

in performance and entertainment, everything must be sold in some way or another, including appearance.

-=tension & release=-


   
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(@chris-c)
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If AC/DC can have a guitarist that wears a child's school suit all the time (is that what that is?).

Exactly my point. :) Angus Young doesn't wear a schoolboy outfit because he's just wandered in after class and can't afford any cool clothes - it's a deliberate image.

Many decades ago I was co-owner of a graphic design and photography business, and one of our lines of work was doing album cover design and publicity photos for the local record label. I have a book of my business partner's photos in front of me as I type this. It's open at a picture of the late Bon Scott (the original singer for AC/DC). He's standing in front of a toilet in a T-shirt and jeans displaying tattoos down both arms. His zip is undone right down to his pubic hair, showing another tattoo across his lower belly and groin.

Graeme didn't just happen to snap him coming out of the lavatory. That photo was part of a deliberate image too.... :mrgreen:

Cheers,

Chris


   
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(@trguitar)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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video killed the radio star. :?

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

Define your act: are you musicians, or entertainers?

If you're musicians, it's only about the music. If you're entertainers, it's the whole package.

Acts that are about the music should put the blinders on - many symphonies do this literally, having candidates audition from behind a screen. Acts that are about entertaining need to create some sort of rubric for judging. You need to scale the different criteria - there's a minimum acceptable level for each factor; you can be too dang ugly (or too untalented) for your other skills to put you in the running, but if you've got great chops and bad teeth (or vice versa) it's a trade-off, and at some point you need to decide what's more important.

FWIW, I've found that acts that are about entertaining have the best (albeit still very slim) chance at grabbing the gold ring and getting rich and famous. But acts that are about the music have the best chance at making a decent living.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@trguitar)
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Well, I got into guitar because of KISS, so obviously looks were important to me. Now? I'm a 48 year old out of shape male nurse getting grey hair. yeah ... I'm dead sexy! :lol: Can I play? I'd like to think so. Do I look hot? Well, what is the temperature? Yeah, looks matter, but there is a look for everyone. Check out Mick Mars. he is a geezer but still looks cool. IMO I'm sure Moonrider looks cool too ... when he's not wiggling his butt. :lol:

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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(@kent_eh)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1882
 

As has already been said, if it's "all about the music" for the rest of you, then looks should be pretty much a non-issue.
If you're trying to appeal to the "beautiful people"* then I guess looks need to rate higher.
I think the "idol" shows place way to much emphasis on looks. If they did it as a radio show would they have the same winner? I doubt it.

Would you hire these guys as lead singer?



* whenever I think of the self-appointed beautiful people, I always hear the Marilyn Manson song of the same name.

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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(@gnease)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

Define your act: are you musicians, or entertainers?

If you're musicians, it's only about the music. If you're entertainers, it's the whole package.

<snipped>

good post, Tom. this is exactly what I meant in citing Atlanta Rhythm Section. they were good, solid working studio guys who decided to form a band, do a record of their own and play concerts. unfortunately, that took them from the purely music world to the entertainment world, where they were castigated for not being glam enough.

-=tension & release=-


   
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 KR2
(@kr2)
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Yes, it's why I wouldn't date Dorothy McKeon in high school.
As a result, we didn't get married . . . and I don't have ugly children.

KR2

It's the rock that gives the stream its music . . . and the stream that gives the rock its roll.


   
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(@scrybe)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 2241
 

Yes, it's why I wouldn't date Dorothy McKeon in high school.
As a result, we didn't get married . . . and I don't have ugly children.

KR2

Damn. You nicked my analogy! :wink:

In anything you do, provided people are going to see you, then yes looks do matter. Whether that is aesthetic beauty, fitting in with the image (a la not dressing like a goth at a blues gig), or simply looking convincing. I know politics should be kept off these boards, but to illustrate...

I didn't like Tony Blair as PM. There was a lot about him that I disagreed with. But whenever something major happened (death of Diana, terrorist attacks, etc.) he could give a speech and look convincing. You might disagree with his words completely, and you might think him inept, but he could appear competent and in control, and that impression worked in his favour.

I'm not saying you have to be beautiful to succeed, or that you have to conform completely to a cliche or uniformity. But, and no matter what we might think of this in abstract theorizing, the simple fact is that all our interactions are heavily influenced by visual cues. That doesn't mean they can outweigh all other evidence, but they are pervasive, so to ignore them is to work one's own detriment.

As a slightly related example...I have worked on music tours doing lighting. I've done some sound engineering work, but my main focus was always lighting. A top sound engineer once told me "for most people, if you go to a gig where the sound is just okay, or even quite muddy, but the lights are great, you'll think it was a good show. But, if you go to a gig where the sound is great, and the lights are only okay, or even bad, then you'll think it was a bad show. Lighting is far more immediate and easy to assess than the subtleties of good sound engineering. It's that simple." Obviously, the more you work in music or sound, the more attention you'll pay to those subtleties (ask a non-musician to discern the tonal differences between a Les Paul and a Strat on a full band record, for example - guitar players will identify strats on records much more easily than the 'average' listener). Or just think of those MTV tracks where the video carries the song.

In response to the initial thought experiment - I'd hire the guitarist, but I might ask her to tone down her appearance a little if I thought it clashed too strongly with the image we were trying to present (or the image our audience wished to see). I certainly wouldn't ask her to change her looks completely, but that's just me. On the other hand, I did play guitar on a bunch of gigs for a singer where I wore a spangly and strappy cream dress at her request despite preferring not to wear dresses while I'm playing guitar. I did it without a second thought, but that was because it wasn't my gig, it was hers (the singer's) - I was just there to support her and make her sound good. I still had a great time though.

It isn't so much a political matter as it is one of basic human psychology. To flip the experiment, what if you could go to see one of two guitars play live.. They're both only doing one show, and each show is on the same night at the same time. Going to one means missing the each other. Now, these two guitarists are equally talented musically, there isn't a single thing sonically which makes one better than the other. But guitarist A looks good (by whatever criteria you want - fanciable, fits the image of their music, reminds you fondly of someone you know/knew, whatever) and is more entertaining to watch than guitarist B. Which guitarist do you go to see? I think even the most die-hard "I'm all about the music, man" individual would be inclined to choose guitarist A in such circumstances.

Ra Er Ga.

Ninjazz have SuperChops.

http://www.blipfoto.com/Scrybe


   
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 KR2
(@kr2)
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darn. You nicked my analogy! :wink:
Sorry about that.
But I'm more open-minded . . . and politically correct now (not really) . . . but I'm glad I wasn't back then . . .
I might have married Dorothy.

It's the rock that gives the stream its music . . . and the stream that gives the rock its roll.


   
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(@citizennoir)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1247
 

I don't know.... the whole idea of trying to make the guitarist fit into a preconceived notion of some image is silly to me.

Did you see my reply - I'd take her in a second!
That's the sound we want, now lets work around that look.
That's how I like things - that's how I write songs.
I let things 'just happen' and don't try to control everything.
I dont ever envision anything with all the details worked out in advance.
And I'm not good at staying in, or voluntarily putting myself in a box.

Besides - who here can tell me what exactly a blues band is suppose to look like?

A lone black man on a stool with a cheap acoustic guitar dressed in an expensive double breasted pinstrip suit (ala' Robert Johnson)....
3 white guys from Texas - 2 with really long beards in dusty overcoats and sparkly clean fuzzy white guitars.... (ZZ-Top)
A racial mixed band complete with a screaming lead guitarist who happens to be a tall, lanky, somewhat goofy looking
Jewish kid from the Northside of Chicago (The original Butterfield Blues Band)....
A rippin' electric slide player who is tall and sickly skinny with 6 fingers on his left hand (Hound Dog Taylor).

Yes - I'm begining to see a pattern here.... :roll:

The blues has been infused into just about every kind of music there is - From Santana's Latin Blues, to Tinariwens African Blues, to Butterfields East/West modal explorations, etc....

If she's a great blues player, and is into metal.... go with a metal blues fusion: Bloody Waters!
There ya go!

I mean, who's to say what your suppose to look like, especially in a blues band.
Traditionally they're just a bunch of blues enthusiasts who get together.
What's the big deal.
Why limit yourself with some phoney ideal of what the band is suppose to look like - You could miss out on a great opportunity to be very unique.

Besides, cultivating an image is such a drag.... When I started playing in the band at 18, I was just me trying to play guitar.... after a couple years though, I started to cultivate a decidedly rock star image for myself.
I ended up spending more time on my image than I did practicing guitar.
And it soon became a very dangerous and self destructive habit.

These days, I'm happy to write, record, and produce my stuff.... no band, no image.
Much more fulfilling.

I feel sorry for people like Jessica Simpson and Britney :(

Ken

"The man who has begun to live more seriously within
begins to live more simply without"
-Ernest Hemingway

"A genuine individual is an outright nuisance in a factory"
-Orson Welles


   
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