From guitar to piano

I have no experience with this, but I am also thinking of learning some basic honky tonk, rock n roll piano for fun. So I will follow this thread with interest. :D

I play both instruments. I'm a heck of a lot better at guitar, but I studied classical piano pretty seriously for about 5 years after college. There are significant differences, but some similarities too...

The differences:

- The keyboard layout is very logical: left to right, pitches go up. On the guitar, pitches go up in two different directions, along strings and across frets.

- The guitar layout is comparatively limited: you get pitches with four fingers. On the piano, you use ten. This gives you a much bigger range on the piano (you can span seven octaves at once; on the guitar you can manage a little over two). Piano also gives you more digits to train and keep track of. While both are capable of playing independent lines simultaneously, that's a lot easier on piano.

- On the guitar, the hands work together to create a sound. On the piano, they're completely independent. This requires a different method of thinking, and practicing.

The similarities:

- Note values are the same (and that's true of all instruments - a beat is a beat is a beat). If you read standard notation, pitch names are identical - even though the guitar is written an octave lower than it sounds, the guitar notation is the same as the right hand notation on the piano.

- Both can be viewed as repeating patterns. On the guitar, a fingering 221 can produce E major (022100) or A minor (002210). On the piano, 1-3-5 fingering in a five finger position can give you a major or minor chord as well. Thinking about the patterns is different, but there are actually the same in number: on the guitar, we have fingerings for A, C, D, E, and G in open position. On the piano, you have one set of fingerings for C, F, F#/Gb and G in root position (all keys the same color), one set for A, D, and E (one black key in the middle), one set for B (two black keys higher than one white key), one set for Bb (two white keys above one black key), one set for Db, Eb, Ab (two black keys with a white in the middle). So learning the chords isn't really any harder on one or the other.

- If you are playing accompaniment/melody arrangements, the logic is the same: strike the chord with the melody note as the highest pitch, then fill in single notes until the next chord - repeating the chord if you choose when the melody note is a chord tone. On the guitar, you do this by strumming a chord, then playing single notes. On the piano, you do this by playing the chord (with one or both hands) and then playing single notes.

- if you're looking for some easy improvising, the 'first position' pentatonic scale is a good starting point on the guitar. On the piano, you get the same notes with just the black keys.... you're in Eb.

My experience of trsnsferring guitar knowledge to piano.....please bear in mind, I'm not a very good guitarist like Noteboat, I'm still a fairly average guitarist.

What I learned from my first few months on Guitarnoise was how to form chords - well, I learned a lot more, but as I'm mostly a strummer, a rhythm guitarist, if you like - one of the mods called Helgi Briem posted a chord formation chart. Major chord, I - III - V....minor, I - bIII, V....etc, etc. I learned that off by heart....although I've still never used a diminished, augmented or b5m7 chord in any of my own songs.

Anyway, we had a cheap keyboard lying around - I bought it for my daughter, because her best mate had a keyboard. (I also bought her a guitar when the same best mate got a guitar - that was what got me back into playing, but she never kept that up either!) I thought to myself one day, "what if I could apply that chord formation theory I've learned to the keyboard?"

I soon found out it wasn't too hard to make major, minor, sus4 and sus2 chords on the keyboards. 7ths and maj 7ths and m7ths needed a little more work - you needed four fingers instead of three.

But - what nobody told me was, you're supposed to make chords with your LEFT hand and play a melody with your right hand....I was doing exactly the opposite! Making chords with the right hand, playing a simple bass-line with the left. If I started to play a solo/melody with the right hand, it sounded a little bare, because I was still only playing a bass note rather than chords with the left hand....

But, that's all right, I can live with being a fairly rubbish keyboard player. If I'm adding keyboards to one of my own songs I'm recording, I'll usually use the organ setting, and it'll be chords with the right and a bass note with the left.

I learned the wrong way....comes from trying to teach yourself, instead of asking someone who actually knows what they're doing!

Then again, that's OK - all I wanted to do on the keyboard was add a little extra depth to my music.

A little flashback.....a few years ago, I started jamming fairly regularly with a guy I met at the acoustic jam night at my local pub. Turned out Stu was a big fan of the Faces too .... we worked on "Cindy Incidentally" for a couple of weeks, I managed to work out the chords and Stu played slide and fills. After one session, I thought I'd surprise him and record the piano as a backing track for us to play along with. I ended up having to record TWO piano tracks....did the left hand bass part with my right hand, then overdubbed the chords also with my right hand.

My left hand is fairly intelligent by now when it comes to playing guitar (although there are still a couple of chords I have trouble with...) but when it comes to piano, the best I can manage is one finger with the left hand. Root note, and that's it. Chords? Forget it. I probably could master them with a lot of time and a lot of effort.....but that time and effort is devoted to guitar. Still trying to achieve promotion from average/mediocre to pretty decent!

Oh and by the way, if anyone's interested in hearing that version of "Cindy Icidentally," it's here..... http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=225059&songID=5420556 .....forget the keyboards, and the vocals are pretty throwaway (I was just doing a backing track, remember? I'd put more effort into it if I was was singing it live....) but I was pretty pleased with the guitar riffs, think they were fairly spot on!

:D :D :D

Vic

But - what nobody told me was, you're supposed to make chords with your LEFT hand and play a melody with your right hand....I was doing exactly the opposite!
This is where I got really lucky. I stumbled on to it. Actually, more in the style of what Nuno talks about with the bass in left hand and melody on the right. I hit one note left handed to a few notes right handed. sounds kind of nice. It was total luck, though. It just sort of happened.