Hendrix - was he really that good?

Funny, I'd have thought it was the other way around, Hendrix made it big over here before before going back to America. He was a British export...
:wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfmbel7xIt4 just an example
I LOVE that clip!!!! Thats my fav of his.

MAn this is a post that realy kicked open a hornets nest didnt it? I cant say Im a huge fan. I like some of his things but not a ton. I think he wrote some real cool stuff personaly. A little abstract, and out there.... but im cool with that. I belive most of his fame is being the right guy, at the right time, doing the right stuff. Kinda a perfect storm of guitar fame. A great player? Yes... the best ever? Whos to say? if you think he is, he is to you. Music would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things.

Should the question have been was he over rated? He was "that" good. How could you say he wasn't good? He was a superb guitarist. Any arguement he wasn't among the more talented guitarists of his generation? The question is, was he as good as some people think he was. Did he change music as much as he is credited for? Those are the questions. I don't have those answers by the way. :roll:

Well he changed my life forever, he is one of the few artists that I have kept playing ever since I first discovered him and it's almost 15 years now, still keep coming back to him. I guess that is all that matters to me, whether people think he is overrated, or a drugged up hippy or whatever, it matters little to me. I love Michal Jackson too because I grew up listening to him, it won't go down well on this board I am sure - I know he was a sell out, I think it is probably likely he did many of the things he was accused of but I can't break away from the fact that it was such a big part of my childhood listening to him and still occasionally like to hear those albums - though I don't put him on as often as Hendrix.

Never understood the fascination with Hendrix. I don't think it's an age thing either as I like the stuff the was around before him: The Ink Spots, Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald, The Andrews Sisters, Billy Holiday etc. Don't like him or anything else from that error.*

Interestingly enough, there was a night at work where we played classic rock to pass the time. We were between the ages of 25 to 35 so 'classic rock' ended up being hits from the 90s.

*exceptions have been made for Elvis Presley based on the grounds that he's Elivs Presley

You like the Andrews Sisters and Elvis but don't care for Hendrix. That's very interesting because I like jogging but I hate calculus.

WOW!
Great topic :D
I have so much to say about this, I'm bursting at the seams!

My first thought to say to you, Vic, about why you don't really find Jimi pleasing can be summed up in just one word -
JAZZ!

I know how much you dislike Jazz.

Any fan of The Doors should recognize the Jazz leanings of Mitch Mitchell's drum style.
Both borrowed a lot from Elvin Jones. Jones worked with both Mingus and Coltrane, amongst others.
As a result, even Jimi's "pop" hits held a tinge of Bop influence.

Take a listen to Third Stone from the Sun, off the first album.... Jazz City!
The bass line is fantastic! (And played by Jimi, IIRC).

Perhaps it's the fact that he melds SO MANY different influences together, that you find it hard to get into....?
I mean, he could be doing Curtis Mayfield one minute, Wes Montgomery the next, followed by a good old fashioned Blues lead.
Country, R&B, Soul, Blues, Jazz.... All mixed together. Only, not with any of it sticking out as such, like Jeff Beck with the Yardbirds, or Mike Bloomfield with The Butterfield Blues Band's, East-West.... Both with their Eastern influence that was merely pinned to Western music. No, Jimi truly mixed it all together to create a whole new sound.

Immature, you say?
No. Maybe a little TOO mature!
To me, Page in Zep is an immature guitarist - Overblown histrionics and pyrotechnics. Self serving and sloppy.
See, now I never could get into Led Zeppelin. Shame really. But that's how it is.
I do like a handful of their songs. But as a whole, just can't get into 'em.

And you know I love Koss.... But really a bit primitive, don't you think?

I was recently reading Townsend talk about Jimi. He was saying that Rock guitar is an ANGRY thing. But that Jimi made it beautiful.... And made it cool to be beautiful. When I think of Jimi's guitar sound, it's a CLEAN Strat. Not sure what he used in the studio.... Some say 100 watt Marshalls, though I've heard that he used Fender amps. He used both at Monterey.
But maybe that's the thing: I don't really hear him PLAYING a guitar most of the time. His music transports me to another plane, another dimension, or at least someplace else - Someplace NEW and far away, but not alien. It's almost as if it's not at all MUSIC, but quite literally AN EXPERIENCE!
Pink Floyd, eh.... They come close. Though I'm still aware that it's music.
Maybe The Doors come closest to the Jimi out of body experience, again very Jazz influenced.

By all accounts of ANYBODY who played with him, he was a very generous musician. Not at all a show off.
Clapton said of Jimi, that guitar was very throwaway to him and that he didn't take himself too seriously.
And at the same time was intensely self-critical of his music.

Have you ever seen the Dick Cavett interview? That really gives insight into his personality.

Here's a quote from Jimi, himself:
"I feel guilty when people say I'm the greatest guitarist on the scene. If only people would take more of a true view, and think in terms of feeling. Your name doesn't mean a 'darn', it's your talent and feeling that matter.You've got to know more than the technicalities of notes - You've got to know what goes between the notes".

Jimi was a 'Color' player. (Isn't there an article on Color, here on GN? If not, I'm sure I've seen some vids dealing with it on Utube). I don't see him as a shredder at all. To me, that's EVH.... He looks like he's showing off. And the sad part is,that he doesn't even look like he's having as much fun as a kid who yells for their mom to look at them the first time they ride a bike with no hands. You can tell when Jimi's into it! Watch him play Like a Rolling Stone at Monterey.... He's so happy and excited to be playing a Dylan tune that he has to excuse himself just so he can play his guitar! :D

Okay, maybe more on this later.

Ken

Citi that's a pretty good insight but I'm not sure the jazz thing really comes through to most listeners at least not me or I have never really thought about that.

But Jimi it seems is a love him or hate him kind of guy. Not sure why it seems that way. Saying that Im middle of the road. I like a bunch of his songs and can't stand alot of his recordings.

I think to appreciate him you would have really needed to see him live. He never seemed like a show off to me at all I also thought he was pretty humble.

I personally never liked his voice that much and a singers voice/tone have a big effect on whether I like their or the bands music. Many that's a very myopic way to look at music but that's just me I can't even tell you why.

Do you like Dylan Cnev?

Flea not particularly never liked his voice either but I can listen to some of his stuff and enjoy it. I'd say Hendrix and Dylan are about the same for me.

It depends what you like........ Hendrix and Dylan were both very much artists and quite often it means that the way they express their art is not as clean cut as the professionally trained - I love the way both Hendrix and Dylan sing - no one can quite cover their songs and make them sound quite as unique - I don't think I have ever heard a Hendrix cover with vocals I really thought worked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ29pVhsdMs

Now this guy ^ can REALLY sing, but it leaves me cold - it is so cheesy for a start. If Hendrix or Dylan had been people that were considered fantastic singers, I wonder if I would have cared about them either. I think Hendrix and Dylan sang well, or at least in their own style, something always draws me back to listen to more - which is probably that no-one else can write and sing like them.

I can see what you're saying, Chris. Though it's odd for me to see SO many people that DON'T like Hendrix.
I never knew he had so many detractors.... Really.
Where I grew up, everyone I knew thought he was a God!
Plus, I grew up with him. He was my dad's favorite. When I was a kid, dad's favs were: Hendrix, Steppenwolf, The Animals, and The Doors. The '71 Strat was a gift from my ma to my dad because of his love for Jimi. So, I guess in a way, Jimi is responsible
for my Strat-Lust, too (Jimi and that picture of Brownie on the back of The Derek and the Dominos album!).

And I was completely unaware of anyone not liking his singing. All news to me! LOL!
But like Flea said, I just can't picture anyone else singing Jimi's songs.
Like his playing, it was totally organic. It just fits.

I have the same problem with The Doobie Bros.... Can't quite figure why I don't like 'em!
They have all the elements that I like in a group, but still....
I think maybe their production is just a bit too slick for my liking.
Anyway, I see your point :wink:

Ken

"are you experienced" may be the most beautiful album ever recorded.

I have to come onside for Jimi. He was just a very viceral dude. He made noise but did it in a real way. He was very focused on making his guitar sound like actual things and if that meant going outside of harmony then he wasn't afraid to go there. He really grounded alot of his personal experiences into his playing and his audience really identified with it because in it they heard alot of sounds that I think they were imagining and hearing but hadn't been turned into music yet. He was going very deeply into alot his own experiences about things like Vietnam,drugs, and what he had experienced was just not always harmonious and so he just played it that way. He was a showman who didn't compromise his music to put on a show. There are alot of iconic electric guitar players from that era but I don't anyone of them would have the credibility they are given if it wasn't for Jimi. Him just being him turned being a guitarist into a really important act. I think there is shade of truth to what everyone has said and the criticism's that have been made. However, I can just remember being a teenagager hearing stone free, manic depression, and the wind cries mary ect...for the first time and just being so moved because his music was so raw and so real. It is so different from anyone else who was making music during that period and is instantly recognisable as being Jimi.

Fair enough, but why would anyone want to do what Jimi did? To me, most of his musical output was just a noise...almost white noise....for example, Machine Gun - the Hendrix fans will tell you, "man, watch his technique....that's amazing guitar playing!" I can listen to it for about 10-15 seconds, then I have to put some proper music on...something with melody, something with a beat, something tasteful.

Sorry....I just don't get it.

machine gun is a song about war. it's the sound of war. it starts kind of rough, with his guitar imitating his vocals, but once the 4 minute mark rolls around and he just starts playing, you can hear rifle fire, bombs dropping, screams, planes flying overhead, sirens wailing, a dying man's pleas. sort of like the breakdown in the star spangled banner at woodstock. it's the farthest thing from tasteful. "that's one we don't want to hear any more". it's also just plain sick playing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9AaQQbvT4M&feature=related