Jimi Hendrix

A couple of people have danced around the point I'm going to try to make, but I still feel compelled to post something.

There's a great deal of mythologizing that goes on with Hendrix that doesn't seem to go on with other guitarists.

Hendrix was a poor black man in a time in this country where he couldn't even walk in public without risking being spit on and cursed at. He had very little education and very few opportunities. He would often sit on the porch of his aunt's house (his mother and father were rarely around) and cry, longing for the day when he could escape Seattle.

He got his first guitar and in order to tune it he went to a local guitar shop and fooled with an in-tune guitar in order to find out how the strings should sound. Early on, he didn't have enough money to replace the strings on his guitar when they would break. Later, when he was backing up other touring acts, he didn't have enough money to replace his guitar if someone stole it -- it got to the point where he would sleep with his guitar so nobody would take it from him.

So back to the original question. In terms of technical ability, he is surpassed by plenty. But I say you need to look at more than that. Hendrix was born into poverty and could barely even get a guitar of his own. He would pull apart broom sticks, nail the wire to the wall and play on that. To go from making his own guitar out of makeshift materials to being one of the most influential guitarists ever, well, that's the stuff myths are made of.

kev,

once again, were not talking about influences, ofcourse the players of the 60s and 70's paved the way, they came first, that does not
make them better.

Okay, is it just me, or do these guys, Satriani, Vai, etc, have incredible guitar skill, but absolutely no emotion in their playing? I enjoy listening to Vai, but when he plays...he is playing notes. When Hendrix plays, or Clapton plays, they are playing a song. They are playing their emotions, and this aura, this feeling of life and inertia and spine tingling connectivity is pouring from their amps. I just don't get that feeling from these players. Not to take away from their talents, but I don't feel like I am an improved person from just a single song, as I do with Hendrix or Clapton or Beck.

Okay, is it just me, or do these guys, Satriani, Vai, etc, have incredible guitar skill, but absolutely no emotion in their playing?

Nah, not just you. But don't worry, it takes time to hear emotion in other things that 12bar-blues. :P Anybody noticed that the closer Hendrix stays to the same-old-blues-stuff the better people like it? The more pentatonic notes, basic time signatures and bluesbars the more obvious his 'genius' was. The more Satriani deviates from that golden formula (see Page, Clapton, Green etc, all the same stuff with a different sauce over it) the less emotion people hear.

And ofcourse, if I can't hear emotion in something then obviously that musician sucks. Heaven forbid that maybe I just don't get something. No, let's just scream they don't have emotion, don't show emotion and therefor everyone who listens to it sucks too. Kinda sad, really. Now I could also just say that I'm a person with a rather restricted taste, and that I simly prefer western rock music from the 60s/70s without taking a crap on musicians who are infinitely better then I am, and probably better then most of us combined. If anything Hendrix was about trying new things, experimenting. But who gives a rats behind about that, just gives us SRV or Eric Johnson because they stay closest to what we know. Apparantly it never gets boring to mention how emotional Clapton is every time he bends the tonic to the minor third. Don't forget to practice your emotionality before you got to bed...

How about a little game: everyone who posted more then twice here is not allowed to post in this topic again until you wrote a song and posted it. Who knows, maybe one of us even finds this new riff or effect instead of just talking about it.

I found a new riff in one of my songs, it was pretty cool. I think it was new anyways, I hadn't heard it played before. But it sounded very spacey/atmospheric-esque.

I'm not saying I'm better than Hendrix - I mean, obviously I am, and Satriani and Malmsteen too, - but I'm not saying that. Just that I created a new riff, so I'm the mannnnnn.

Honestly, I can't say how many either Hendrix is God threads, or Hendrix is over-rated threads, or X speed player is bad/good threads I've seen in my four years here at GN. I'm not sure what they ever accomplish, usually the people who come in with very specific tastes, leave with the same specific tastes, which is why I've resisted posting here for a while. Appreciating new music is all about open mindedness.

I checked out that Surfing with the Alien video, and then read the comments about "I don't hear any emotion in it" and I'm wondering if we're all watching the same video - I saw/heard a talented guitar player that kept my interest during the entire song, despite my predesposistions towards classic rock and blues.

I mean really, the bottom line is, who cares if you don't like Malmsteen. Someone does, someone appreciates his music more than Hendrix's, that's enough for me. And this whole "good" guitar player, it's extremly subjective, and a little silly. Why is Hendrix better than Xspeedplayer, can he do what xspeedplayer can do? Why is Xspeedplayer better than Hendrix? Can he do what Hendrix could do? Unless one can do what the other can do, AND MORE, they aren't better. The fact is, Hendrix could never play with the technical ability those guys can, and those guys can't innovate the sounds Hendrix did...they've already been made. So how is either better? They're different, they excel in different areas.

kev,

kp,

really? i can think of one guitar player from back in the day that makes me say, " how did he do that" and thats jeff beck

There is not a classical guitarist alive today, including guys like Parkening, who don't listen to Andre Segovia and think "one day, maybe, with a bit more work . . ."

I've met some folks considered the world's best gyspy jazz players, and they travel with recordings of Django.

I study with a guy Johnny Smith called his most promising student, and he listen's to Joe Pass and sighs deeply.

If Jeff Beck is the only guitarist from "back in the day" that leaves you in awe with their skill, then I strongly suggest you're either far too limited in your exposure to music, or you really need to cut some records, 'cause you must be amazing.

It's not about "how they did it," in terms of technique. (Well, except for Django, how he played some of the stuff he did with only 2 working fingers is a real mystery), but in terms of their musical ability. Joe Pass doesn't do anything complicated. He plays extremely simple licks and extremely simple chord voicings. But that doesn't mean I can do what he does . . . I don't have the musical imagination he has. His solo's sound way better than mine because he really is so much better than I ever could have been . . . nerve damage not withstanding.

I'm absolutely certain that I have a better instrument than Django ever played, I have a better understanding of technique, I have greater dexterity, I know more theory, I know more music, I've had exposure to far more musicla ideas, I have Django's entire discography to study, and I have more fingers! But I'll never hold a candle to him.

kp

i was talking about guys like page, clapton, guys in there genre and era, and i agree with you on django and segovia, true masters of there
instrement, and i'm not saying that i'm better than anybody, i'm just a non feeling, no emotion shredder that has spent over 15,000 bucks on lessons
and god only knows how many hours of practice, so feel free to bash away.

And ofcourse, if I can't hear emotion in something then obviously that musician sucks. Heaven forbid that maybe I just don't get something. No, let's just scream they don't have emotion, don't show emotion and therefor everyone who listens to it sucks too. Kinda sad, really. Now I could also just say that I'm a person with a rather restricted taste, and that I simly prefer western rock music from the 60s/70s without taking a crap on musicians who are infinitely better then I am, and probably better then most of us combined. If anything Hendrix was about trying new things, experimenting. But who gives a rats behind about that, just gives us SRV or Eric Johnson because they stay closest to what we know. Apparantly it never gets boring to mention how emotional Clapton is every time he bends the tonic to the minor third. Don't forget to practice your emotionality before you got to bed...

You are missing my point. I am not saying that the music is crap, in any way. I am just saying that guys who play 50 notes/second have a hard time putting emotion into their playing. I am certainly not saying that "anyone who listens to them sucks." I am merely stating that when I listen to 80s-present 'shredders,' I do not get the same feeling. You are putting words in my mouth by saying that I think the others are garbage, though. In fact, I went well out of my way to ensure that I said I did respect their playing styles, and even that I enjoy it. I just don't think they have the same effect on the instrument that Hendrix or Clapton did.

You are missing my point. I am not saying that the music is crap, in any way. I am just saying that guys who play 50 notes/second have a hard time putting emotion into their playing.

There is no such thing. "Emotion" is a subjective response to the music in the person hearing the music. Musicians make music with an eye towards what the audience will subjectively experience. But they don't "put emotion into their playing." They either play the music well or they don't. Everything is technique. A bend, a slide, a slightly off-key note, in the hands of a master musician it's all just technique.

Part of the problem of discussions like these is people want to say Yngwie has no emotion but great technique and that Jimi has no technique but great emotion. Both views are wrong. Both players have masterful technique within thier genres.

If you can't hear emotion in the playing of someone like Yngwie it's not because the music is being played "without emotion," but becuase you don't have the personally developed subjective musical taste to respond to that music emotively.

But the same can be said of Jimi's music. Plenty of very accomplished musicians heard noise when Jimi played: screaming, mindless noise without musical value and certainly without emotion.
I am certainly not saying that "anyone who listens to them sucks." I am merely stating that when I listen to 80s-present 'shredders,' I do not get the same feeling.

That's fine. But keep in mind that that is a statement about you, not about the musicians.

We are specifcially talking about Jimi here, and as many of you know, I was never enamoured with him. I think he plays some great tunes, but he is much too sloppy for my tastes (as is Mr. Page as well).

I think it IS a matter of personal taste, but the real reason - in my mind - that Jimi is this cultural icon is based on a number of things, not limited to: his race, the period of time (hard rock is new, and the civil rights movement), the NEW stuff he was doing with the guitar, and the fact that he died too early for him to become irrelevent.

In support of Satch and others... they were playing a fairly mature instrument. I mean guys like Cochran, Link Ray, George Harrison, Jimi, Clapton, and even EVH all had some unexplored territory that they could exploit. The Satch and Vai's of the world didn't have as much "unique" space to explore. I mean, if you picked up a guitar in 1952 and decided to turn the amp up as loud as it could get and distort the hell out of it you would have been a hero - because no had done it yet.

I would actually assert that it is simply amazing that we are even talking about Yngwie Malmsteen in 2007. The guy had NO POPULAR songs and was NEVER played on the radio, yet here was are possibly lumping him in with "greats" like Clapton and Jimi. His style of playing was unique and different, and he carved out a nitch. The same could be said, to some degree, of Satch.

All are good, and all are different. I would say that the "luminaries" of the guitar world tend to be idloized far too much for their greatness. I also believe that plenty of great rock guitarists don't get any recognition. Neil Schon of Journey was awesome, but since his music is lumped into the "lame 80's radio pop" he doesn't get credit. http://www.schonmusic.com/ What about Gary Richrath from REO Speedwagon? He name - and his music - is usually followed by laughter, but he could play some serious rock and roll.

Good post KP

Speaking of hearing emotion in music, I've only come across to musicians that have that powerful of an effect on me - Trey Anastasio and Eric Clapton, and they've only done it once each, music that was so powerful I actually choked up, felt goosebumps on my arm. That is indeed rare.

I mean, if you picked up a guitar in 1952 and decided to turn the amp up as loud as it could get and distort the hell out of it you would have been a hero - because no had done it yet.
Wrong. You gotta do it right. I'm sure people have done it before, but nobody did it right until Jimi did.

And besides, it's a fact, if Jimi didn't make good music he wouldn't be this "Guitar God." If he just blasted the amp, played with a fuzz and wah, and played crap, it wouldn't be the same. His history would have been nothing.

Wrong. You gotta do it right. I'm sure people have done it before, but nobody did it right until Jimi did.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Clapton say something to Townshend along the lines of "This guy's stolen your act?"

:D :D :D

Vic

First, everyone can stay civil. We all have different tastes in music, that is a terrific thing. Variety is the spice of life.

The subject is Hendrix. There can be no denying that Jimi Hendrix was one of the greatest influences on electric guitar. Before him it was Chuck Berry. After Jimi it was Eddie Van Halen. Vai and Malmsteen and those players were pushing what Eddie Van Halen started really.

What everybody is missing is that all of these players were great songwriters. Chuck Berry wrote many hits, along with Jimi, and even Van Halen had a lot of hits. Vai and Satch and Malmsteen really are not great songwriters, they are great players. But to be a big influence you have to get your songs on the radio, people have to hear it.

I won't go into all this emotion thing. All I can say is that Hendrix was one of the greatest Rock guitarists who painted a picture with their music. When Jimi wrote May This Be Love (Waterfall), you can literally hear the water flowing in his music. You can hear the bombs and missiles in Star Spangled Banner and Machine Gun. You can hear how trippy Are You Experienced is.

It's like Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, John Lennon denied the song was about LSD, but regardless, that song sounded like an Acid Trip. The lyrics and music were perfect to set this mood and feeling.

So Hendrix was a great songwriter. To deny this is silly, you can still hear his songs everyday on the radio. Whether you like it or not, that is the test. If people relate and love what you are playing, you are gonna get playtime.

I'm not bashing the great guitarists like Vai, Satch, or Malmsteen. I've heard their music, I appreciate that they are great players, but their music doesn't move me. And the fact is, this is generally true about all of them or you would hear their songs on the radio everyday. I don't want to get into this stuff about people being programmed or conditioned to like certain types of music presented by the media, it just isn't so. People know for certain what they really like to listen to, and they call the station and request those songs. And the station is going to play what the people want, not what some executive wants.

Eric Clapton can't play like these guys, but he's pretty darn good. But he writes great songs people like. That's why he's on the radio everyday and why he is a huge influence.

^^^Bingo. If Hendrix wasn't as amazing of a guitarist, he'd be looked at as one of the best songwriters of all time, and someone like Mitch Mitchell would be spoken in the same breath as Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, and maybe even Neil Peart.

Jimi's guitar playing ability shadows over his writing, his drummer, and hell his bass player too. No way Cox should be spoken in the same breath as Jamerson, Graham, Thunderfingers...but he'd be top 20, no doubt. The Mitchell-Hendrix-Cox lineup was perfect.