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Learning from those less skilled/experienced .. or Way More!

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TRGuitar
(@trguitar)
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That band is awsome Chris! I would love to see them play. Have to realize though that we are up here in God's country. Most sparcely populated part of the state. The only city in the county has 12,000 people. People who are serious move down your way.

In case you noticed these guys were retirement age and don't play on a regular basis anymore. Can you give them a chance by listening to a recording from a college radio live performance back when I was at this college?

Oh .... not using being hicks as an excuse. Our little 12,000 person town has some talented people including currently an NHL goal tender tor the Red Wings and an NBA head coach. Got a guy whose parents were music teachers at the school who has 4 grammys. Was just nominated for a Juno and missed. None of them by the way stayed up here. :lol:

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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cnev
 cnev
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Well to me I'm just thinking you guys are way better than the first video and I don't really see you that much less than the second so you guys should definitely be out there.

The band I posted is definitely good and very tight and for the most part I like what they play and they do it well, but there are hundreds of bands around here and I'd say they are probably in the top 10% or so.

These guys are all in their 40's maybe older too. The original bass player who was really good and passed away was in his 50's so they aren't young kids either, not that it matters.

When I was working at the club I used to see all kinds of bands from every genre and there were some really really good ones that I know are still around but I don't get out as much anymore to go see bands.

But just get a drummer and get out there. :D

A friend here at works sister-in-law is in a band called Rubix Cube out of NYC, check them out. They are very good at what they do which is all 80's music but they put on a show and the band is really tight.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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TRGuitar
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Well then, guess thats what we need to do. :D Yeah, the talent pool up here is shallow. We can pass. :mrgreen:

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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Ness K
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Since picking up a guitar in 2007(and then subsequently putting it back down then picking it back up in 2009), I've always wanted to be in a band. MY band more particularly. I don't really like cover bands(Ness K VS. Cover Bands thread topic cemented that), and I want that thrill of going onstage and playing music that you wrote and rehearsed and hoping for the best. I'm not a very talented musician at all. My guitar approach is to innovate the act of playing as much as possible because of my lack of technical talent and skill. Like whenever I actually get around to forming a band, I'm fairly certain it's going to be a bad affair. Probably really bad. But who cares? The freedom of music is that you can be bad to some people but perfectly golden to others. Just a matter of taste. I think finding just the right singer and perfecting songs written and performed by other bands already only has one place in the live music spectrum...and thats with Cover Bands.

"The Beauty of Music is my Sanity. Without it, I would simply lose my gravity, and blow away with the breeze." - Ness K(Aka Matt Harris)


   
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Moonrider
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I don't really like cover bands.

All bands are cover bands. Some just cover music that's written by the one or more of the band members. There's only bands. No such thing as a "cover band."

I'm not a very talented musician at all. My guitar approach is to innovate the act of playing as much as possible because of my lack of technical talent and skill.

Sorry Ness K, that one's just you making excuses for being lazy. I'm not buying it. The technical skills can be learned. I'm living proof of that. All it takes is putting in time and WORK to learn them. Talent just makes learning those skills a bit easier. "Innovate the act of playing," is just another way of saying "I'm re-inventing the wheel, but don't know enough to realize it."
Like whenever I actually get around to forming a band, I'm fairly certain it's going to be a bad affair. Probably really bad. But who cares?

I care. The last thing I want to listen to is Yet Another Band That Makes People Want To Vomit. There's too many of those out there already. I'd much rather listen those who spent enough time learning their craft to really come up with something original, or even just use the old hackneyed cliches in fresh ways.

Every true artist of any stripe knows that there are technical skills that need to be mastered, and they expend whatever effort needed to learn those skills. It's HARD work, and rarely appreciated. Every poser out there thinks it's easy until they attempt to DO it.

If you want to form a band, DO it. Put the work in to make it one that people will drive for HOURS to see, not one that makes people puke on the dance floor, clap their hands over their ears and run screaming out the door.

Be the artist, not the poser making sorry excuses.

Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.

Moondawgs on Reverbnation


   
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TRGuitar
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This kind of gets back the the newby band errors I was pointing out at the beginning. (Announcing their mistakes to the crowd and telling everyone "We suck!") Don't sell yourself short. Don't settle. It is work. It is also great fun. I would say my short coming is my vocals for sure, but thats why I keep recording myself, analyzing what is good, what is bad and I keep working.

As for covers ....... when I see a band I want to hear songs I know. So, unless you have a hit record, entertain me with stuff I know. You can throw in an origional here and there, but play what I know. I will like you better for it.

Just my opinion of course.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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Crow
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I prefer to hear something I've never heard before. That could be original material. It also could be "On the Boardwalk" played in a minor key. Or Billy Joel's lyrics sung over Frank Zappa's music....

There are innumerable ways to do the band thing. Some points of craft however I think are immutable: Play songs in different keys. (If you play a whole set in G major, you will piss people off in ways they can't exactly identify.) Mix up your tempos. Keep the energy up at the beginning and end of a set. Interact with the audience, at least a little bit (even if it's abusive). You are there to entertain, so you better know how to read an audience & entertain them.

Sorry, Moonie, but there are "cover bands." There's a very fine cover band here in Colorado Springs. They perform the Golden Oldies with note-for-note precision. Just like the record, every song. They put on a great show. But there is not a single original idea in any of their three or four sets. It's just well-executed repetition. Which does not entertain me.

And... there is something to be said for playing through your technical limitations. Just go for it.l Yes, it might suck. Ninety-five percent of everything sucks. Go for it!

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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Moonrider
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Sorry, Moonie, but there are "cover bands." There's a very fine cover band here in Colorado Springs. They perform the Golden Oldies with note-for-note precision. Just like the record, every song. They put on a great show. But there is not a single original idea in any of their three or four sets. It's just well-executed repetition. Which does not entertain me.

Ah . . . that's what I call a tribute band, where you mimic the original as closely as possible. When I think of a cover, I think of Joe Cocker's cover of The Beatles "A Little Help From My Friends," or his scorching take on The Boxtops's classic "The Letter," or Roy Buchanan's take on Booker T.'s "Green Onions." THOSE are covers.

Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.

Moondawgs on Reverbnation


   
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TRGuitar
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Yes, it might suck. Ninety-five percent of everything sucks. Go for it!
Have you learned nothing from my post? Don't say you suck!!! :x

My covers sound like me. We do them Wicked Fester style. I certainly do not advocate note for note.

Go to the MySpace link I have. There are 2 origionals there. Are they better than "real" music? We don't seem to be getting rich off them. :lol: I like it when famous artists do covers of other famous artists songs. Covers are cool .... they just need the artists touch.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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cnev
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Ahh cover bands a topic near and dear to my heart. I'm more with TR on this. Yea I can handle the odd "unknown" song and sometimes they can be quite entertaining but I still would prefer that I hear songs I am not only familiar with but also that I like, I rarely go see bands because of there technical abilities I go to hear music I like.

As for note for note, well everyone knows my position on that but I'm not that hung up on it. If it's pretty close it's usually good enough.

I posted a few links to videos from a local cover band and that is the type of band/music I'm talking about. These guys are tight, play pretty much close to the original and play the type of music I'd like to hear.

I'm usually not into the extreme originals.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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Crow
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Have you learned nothing from my post? Don't say you suck!!! :x

Never say you suck, even if you do. :)

Even more important, to me, is not to be afraid to suck. There always will be somebody out there who thinks you suck. F*** them! This is true in any musical style, but in rock it's critical. Attitude counts, big time. Fear will keep you on the couch forever.

I liked Double Axel. Interesting choice of material. (If you're going to play oldies, please play oldies I haven't heard 186,000 times.) The drummer at least was into it. (Somebody in the band should be into it.) They played with a kind of ease... hard thing to describe... they were confident. They had them some attitude. Maybe that's it. Last Licks didn't have that quality. They sounded tentative. They sounded like they had music stands in front of them. (Great vids, however.)

Moonrider, to me a "tribute band" is like the Ramonas, based in Ft. Collins, in which my sister-in-law plays guitar. It's an all-girl band performing Ramones songs. (Fabulous concept, and if anyone is interested in starting an all-male Runaways tribute band, please get in touch with me right away.) Or any of the touring bands like 1964 who do the Beatles' act like a historical re-enactment. Both approaches can be fun.

My last band did "urban country" -- lots of original material mixed with cool country standards -- two guitars, bass, drums. We covered "Can't You See" by the Marshall Tucker Band. The flute part on that song? I played that on bass. That's my kind of cover.

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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cnev
 cnev
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Hmm Crow interesting take on the bands. I'm not going to defend Last Licks but they don't use music stands. They haven't been together as long as Double Axel though.

I don't hear or see the tendativeness you speak of or the attitude of Double Axel unless you call standing up and banging some drum sticks attitude. I actually thought that was a bit cheesy didn't really fit the music they were playing. I would expect that out of a GNR type band or something.

But it's all good there is room for everyone.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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Crow
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No slams intended & no defense required.

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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TRGuitar
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Double Axel have been together in some form since 1965. They went to college together. The video is from the big alumni weekend year before last. The drummer is excited because he hasn't played with them in years. I think they were kinda "Whooping it up" if you know what I mean. :lol: Now Last Licks .... they play the music I really like. I would love to see them.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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cnev
 cnev
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I still find it fascinating how people can see the same things so differently and I wonder if it's the music that you gravitate too that is a subconcious part of your opinion.

I agree that Double Axel is relaxed and from what I can see and hear they can play their instruments, but for one I never heard of the song they are playing and that type of music doesn't get played in my area very often.

That may have to do with where they play being in a more rural location than where I'm at. I can't remember many if any bands playing that kind of music around here and getting regular gigs doing it.

Myself I'm used to hearing and liking the type of songs Last Lick plays and although they've only played a few gigs together they get a really great turnout.

But I thought the band was pretty tight if they aren't then I'm really off in left field somewhere.

And here are my definitions of cover vs tribute.

A cover band is a band that plays other people's cover's

A tribute band plays only ONE artists covers and usually does do the note for note and sometimes the whole costume thing too.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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