Who out there thinks that Metallica sold out after "...And Justice For All"
Personally I think that Cliff Burton would be rolling over in his grave if he saw how drastically the band changed.
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free. - Jim Morrison
Why? because they grew as artists? If they never changed at all and kept playing the music they were playing they'd be called Megadeth.
Maybe that's unfair to Megadeth fans, but i don't think of them as an extremely diverse band.
Steve-0
They may have grown as artists but, if you think back to the days when they first started out Metallica was so opposed to making music videos, on interviews the said that they would never make music videos. But the next year what did they do? They made a music video. IMO no matter how much they grew as musicians they sold out.
I do see where you're coming from but what i'm saying is that Clive Burton taught James Hetfield how to play when it comes down to it. Now his style has changed. Thats all I was saying.
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free. - Jim Morrison
I do! Bob Rock sucks. And it's funny that were supposed to be all excited about theem working with Rick Ruben. His last albus was the Dixie Chicks. LOL. What ever happened to writing your own album?
Exactly, and hopefully I'm not the only one who thinks their sound changed drastically after "...And Justice For All" IMO they only had maybe two or three good songs on the Black album after that it sucked horribly some albums more than others **cough*St. Anger*cough** but crap nonetheless.
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free. - Jim Morrison
Why? because they grew as artists? If they never changed at all and kept playing the music they were playing they'd be called Megadeth.
Maybe that's unfair to Megadeth fans, but i don't think of them as an extremely diverse band.
Megadeth fans, myself included, would say the exact opposite. It might be a narrowish spectrum they've defined themselves, but they move around in it quite well.
Metallica's black album era I really like - but it tailed off after that right up until the point where they fell over, sold out and started churning out the same song 10 times per album :shock: :D
All IMHO, of course :)
Well, I'll admit they've changed quite a bit, and they've even turned to more of a "radio friendly" type of heavy music. But I still don't get why everyone focuses their attention on Metallica. If you look at Led Zeppelin, they did something similar on albums after IV and houses of the holy, with songs like "All of my love" and "Hot Dog" (which is an odd song). The Red Hot Chili Peppers are similar, they started out as a band that mixed funk and hip hop with hard rock. Yet oddly enough these past two albums that they released seem to have barely any funk influence in them and seem to have tons of rock and pop songs in them, this last album seems to have a huge pop influence and pretty much nothing like their first albums. But I don't think they've sold out.
Oh, and just so you know, Rick Ruben also worked with the chili peppers on their last album, so it's not that strange that he'd work with them.
Steve-0
For me Master of Puppets was their best album. I liked ...and justice for all, alot but I loved MOP and still listen to it on occasion. I lost interest after the black album to cleaned up of a sound for my tastes. I like rawness.
Psa. 42:8
By day the LORD commands his steadfast love,
and at night his song is with me, a prayer to the God of my life.
But I still don't get why everyone focuses their attention on Metallica.Mainly because of the Napster thing, I would guess. It just removed any doubt that they were in it for the money before the music.
You're right about the Chilis changing too, but the difference between them and Metallica (for me at least), is that their current album is 28 songs for the same price as you usually pay for a CD. They've basically given you a free album, and nothing would have been pressuring them to do that. In fact, they probably had to fight their label to to do it. You can see from their actions that it's music before money.
And Justice For All, was for me Metallica's best album.
The over playing of the Black album made me sick of them, and Enter Sandman is an absolute joke.
They have had flashes of there former glory since Justice, but nothing has completely solid for me.
IMHO though, Megadeth's Countdown To Extinction album is far better than any Metallica album.
Find all you need in your mind, If you take the time
In the mid - late 80's i was a die hard metallica fan. Then the came out with The Black Album in 1991 and a few songs on it were ok, but they went on tour to milk the black album for everything it was worth. After ..And Justice For All Metallica was in it strictly for the money. If you listen to some of their stuff off of "Kill 'Em All" and then listen to stuff from The Load Era, the change in sound alone is unbelievable. All this is IMO.
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free. - Jim Morrison
I agree with the original post. I thought ...And Justice... was a great album and was a progession from previous works. The Black album was just so... so... radio. All the songs were cut to less than 5 minutes and it just felt so canned. I also think Lars went over-the-top with his cymbal playing. He's like Alex Van Halen on speed.
Anyway... I also agree that bands must evolve and change - for better or worse. While I don't like the post "...And Justice..." Metallica, I agree that if they did not evolve they would end up like Iron Maiden. Which is to say, irrelevant. I love Maiden - and I like many of their newer songs - but since they are still stuck in 1989 mode, the rest of the non-Maiden world couldn't care less if they come out with a new album.
Ok, so while I do think that Metallica "sold out" to a degree - and I believe that they had to sell out, in a way - I also want to note that music in general has become harder and more closely aligned with Metallica's sound. So, in that sense they didn't sell out as much as you think since radio music got harder anyway.
-=- Steve
"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"
That was a great point.
But still there's no denying that to a point Metallica is in it for the money, IMO they could care less about the music. They're sound changed to become "more mainstream" and "radio friendly" to make more music, which proves that money changes everything.
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free. - Jim Morrison
Oh joy, here we go again.
If anyone of you really cared about not being mainstream you wouldn't have listened to metallica in the first place. It's absurd to think any band that sells that many albums and can fill any stadium is anything but the purest mainstream. They were mainstream, they are mainstream. That's hardly an argument to be used when you don't like their music, present or past.
As for selling out: yes, they like money. Like we all do. Yes, they don't really want to give their music away for free, like none of us would want if we were that big. This is all just one big joke, everytime a band changes all the folks who don;t like it anymore come up with the same story: mainstream and sell-out. Whatever. I'm personally happy they got past the 'look I have a wah pedal and can play fast licks!' phase in their lives.
Making a music video has *nothing* to do with selling out, it's an extra medium that can be used to add greatly to the music. They probably figured that out after making that statement, and changed their minds. That actually happens to some people, they change their minds.
In the end: buy the album or don't buy it. But blanket statements like 'selling out' and 'mainstream' don't really seem to serve any point or goal. All IMHO ofcourse.
Arjen, I think the point was that the early albums (as with almost any band) were NOT mainstream. They played the music they wanted and became famous and rich doing that. At some point they moved away from that original music to other areas.
More people like their music now then in 1983. Some of that has to do with exposure, but I would assert that some of that also has to do with the style of music. You said it yourself, "I'm personally happy they got past the 'look I have a wah pedal and can play fast licks!' phase in their lives." Yes, so you enjoy their newer music than their older music. I prefer the older music.
I guess it comes down to the fact that their name is "METALLICA" which was - presumably - created because they played SPEED METAL music. They now play hard rock music that is nicely packaged for general consumption.
-=- Steve
"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"
I agree with Arjen.
AND, if they didnt change with the times then you might as well keep playing the same album over and over. There is a reason for change. You get better, your taste change as an artist, you want your fans to continue to like you. If pleasing your fans and trying to mass more is "selling out" then the alternative is not ever trying to be successful at all.
So, what could they have done to NOT sell out but still become as successful? Admit it, everytime a band pushes to a new level of popularity then there are those that say.. Aww man.. they sold out!!.. The argument makes no sense to me.. But thats MHO
Geoo
“The hardest thing in life is to know which bridge to cross and which to burn” - David Russell (Scottish classical Guitarist. b.1942)
