Metallica Poll

What he said :!: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I hear you all, but you're all idealists and I'm a cynic :)

I guess one could argue that they WERE successful already. That's the point!

I'm not suggesting that they pulled a Gwen Stefani and went from pop music to grunge/alt rock because it was the "in" thing, I'm saying that they were setting the trend with their music and were very successful (Master and ...And Justice were very good sellers) and then they changed their "formula" with the next album and took off commercially.

As I said, I don't think they necessarily "sold out", but their music is MUCH more mainstream than it was 15 years ago - for good or bad.

I still don't get that mainstream comment. When I watch MTV, I see Enter Sandman and such songs. When I look at their best selling albums ever, or best reviewed albums, it's the older stuff. Metallica was doing financially very well with the old stuff, and had no problems filling arenas. So what makes their music now more mainstream? After all, if it were that much more mainstream, then why is hardly anyone here, or anywhere else, defending it?

I don't think they gained in popularity. I doubt they earned that much more money. So what changed is their style, nothing else.

For the record, I don't like there new stuff. I don't think they sold out or any of that crap. I just don't like there new stuff, plain and simple.

They took it to the next level, I just happened to stay behind. It happens.

You're not taking into account the personal agenda, Arjen. Believe it or not, there is a lot of stigma attached to being "mainstream." It's an image thing (just as the term "selling out" is, as you've rightly mentioned in other threads) and people, who are, as a rule, unique, have this uncanny need to want to be "more unique" (and yes, that's a deliberate misuse of the word :wink: ). Advertisers have keyed into this paradox since day one - make someone an individual while selling them all the same stuff. If you think about it, it's part of the reason why we have so many "sub-genres" of music these days. It's not that you can't find all these differences between say, metal, nu-metal and death metal, but more importantly it makes things easier to market. Divide and conquer, as the cliche goes...

There's a great line from an old New Radicals song that goes something like:
"...listening to some obscure band
but isn't she pissed that all the other nonconformists
are listening to the same obscure band..."

and that pretty much sums up many people's take on music. Not to mention life. No wants wants to defend "mainstream" because no one wants to be branded as being mainstream.

Okay, that's more than enough from an old fogey. especially one who's as mainstream as can be... :wink:

Carry on!

Peace

For the record, I don't like there new stuff. I don't think they sold out or any of that crap. I just don't like there new stuff, plain and simple.

They took it to the next level, I just happened to stay behind. It happens.

Dont worry Mike.. I stayed behind with you :D

Geoo

I still don't get that mainstream comment. When I watch MTV, I see Enter Sandman and such songs. When I look at their best selling albums ever, or best reviewed albums, it's the older stuff. Metallica was doing financially very well with the old stuff, and had no problems filling arenas. So what makes their music now more mainstream? After all, if it were that much more mainstream, then why is hardly anyone here, or anywhere else, defending it?

I don't think they gained in popularity. I doubt they earned that much more money. So what changed is their style, nothing else.

I think they most likely sold many more Kill em'all, Ride the Lightning, and Master albums AFTER the Black album (and others) became so popular. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that they didn't make MUCH MUCH more money from 1996 - 2006 than they did 1983 - 1996.

I don't believe making a music video constitutes a "sell out" (although MANY people would agree that when Metallica made "One" as a video on MTV it was the beginning of a change for them) - every band does that now.

I don't believe Metallica's music has "grown" as much as it has just "changed". I think ...And Justice... was a very technical and artistic album. The Black ablum - and those that followed - don't seem to have as much thought and effort put into them. They seem choppy and thrown together. The idea of a unique guitar solo now seems foreign to Metallica. The music that they produced "grew" tremendously from the the 1st album to the 4th, and then I think it became stagnant and actually went backwards from a techincal point of view. I guess that is where I'm coming from. I don't care if a band is on the radio if I like the music (hey, I love Rush and their music has significantly changed over time) but I do believe that the caliber of music that Metallica has produced over the last 10 years is sub-par and smacks of commerical viability instead of artistic integrity.

Many are posting that they don't believe (or care one way or another) that Metallica sold out, but then go on to post that they prefer the first couple of albums to current albums. I think that says something.

Many are posting that they don't believe (or care one way or another) that Metallica sold out, but then go on to post that they prefer the first couple of albums to current albums. I think that says something.

I wasnt even going to respond (I think its better when you give an opinion and then let things die) but since I am one of the quoted. Let me explain. First, I dont believe in a term called "selling out" and if there is such a thing then its a good thing to do and I certainly hope to sell out many many times in my life. Secondly, Just because I enjoyed "And Justice", etc, also does not mean that they sold out on the newer albums. It simply means that the artistic turn they chose to take was not one I was interested in. Not to mention my personal taste have changed many many times since 80 or 90 something. If the same argument holds true then every single band that performed in the 70s, 80s, and 90s but continued to make music in the 00s are sell outs as well because I do not personally prefer any of the new rock n roll compared to the stuff back then.. New music I listen to is a completely different genre.

And dont get me wrong. I'm not in any way taking it personal and I fully expect for you to keep your beliefs... but just wanted to clarify where I, personally, am coming from.

Carry on. :D
Geoo

Before the Black album I had never even heard of Metalica. So I would suppose they succeeded in attracting a broader audience base if there were thousands more out there like me. I have since aquired all of their material and like it as well as I do the Black album. The exception being St. Anger.
I think David summed it up well. You will most likely think your favorite "what-ever" has sold out and sold you out if they start appealling more to the masses. It's not "yours" anymore but everyones.

You're definitely not the only one out there, bford. I was exactly the same way. I had not heard of Metallica until I got ahold of the Black Album, and they still managed to win me over...bford's probably right in saying that they still won thousands over, even at that point. Personal tastes aside, a band that can still do that after so many years is nothing to balk at in today's 'instant stardom, instant fade out' pop-culture. Though I do have to admit, after going back and listening to all of their stuff...it's a lot of the older songs that are my favorites...

I think the term sell-out has been turned around to mean exactly the opposite of it's true meaning here.

OK, very simply.

Metallica sold many albums and made lots of money early in their career.

Now think about this, if Metallica wanted to "sell-out", that is, produce music only for the purpose of making money....

Then what would they have done? What would you have done?

YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO PLAY THE EXACT TYPE OF MUSIC THAT SOLD MILLIONS OF ALBUMS AND MADE YOU BOATLOADS OF MONEY.

Is this what Metallica did? Nope. Metallica started making albums that turned off many of their fans. If anything, record sales and concert attendance probably went way down.

Now why do you think they would do such a stupid thing?

Here's why.

They are not kids anymore. They are not 18 years old. They are in their 40's. They are interested in different music now. They have grown musically whether you like the music or not.

Metallica is in complete control of their music, and they know what people like. If they just wanted to make money they would keep putting out the same old stuff.

This same thing happened to Hendrix. Hendrix grew musically. He was interested in making Jazz records with brass and string sections.

But his record company wanted him to keep playing songs like Purple Haze because they knew this would make MONEY.

THAT IS SELLING OUT.

Hendrix was extremely unhappy because he wanted to grow musically and was not allowed to.

But Metallica has simply grown. They like different music now whether you like it or not.

Sport The Trapped X

I don't know anything about that. I have always liked Metallica but was never a huge fan. I did see a special on Metallica a few years ago. One thing I know, is that Metallica has always been in control of their music. They seemed to have their act together very well.

Money? You think they need money? They probably don't know how to spend the money they have now.

You just don't get it. They are not young teenagers anymore.

SAD BUT TRUE

As much as fans want them to stay teenagers forever, Metallica has grown up. They are men now, and they want to play different styles now.

And they do.

I am in my 40's and I look back at the stuff I listened to when I was 18, yea I still like most of it, but since then I've been exposed to different types of music, blues and folk mainly. I would be very unhappy if someone told me I couldn't explore this music and had to only listen to the old stuff over and over again.

I imagine if I was a musician and was told the only stuff you could play was the type of stuff from your past...no exploring anything new..I'd be miserable.

Times change. so do people, everyone needs room to grow.

Scott

Nice use of the song title!