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responsibility as a song writer

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(@dogbite)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 6348
Topic starter  

I am lost with this topic. it has come up on another forum when I posted help with a song part. not lyrics, as I had them, I asked for another instrument track.
someone posted after hearing my song, 'what do the words mean?' he went further saying that I should not worry about another instrument part, but should make the song easier to enter and to make it more like a story that reveals it's content along the way.
at first I thought it was a good suggestion. then I began to think it was not a good question.
my song lyrics were personal and observational. a listener can take what they want from them and apply it to their life with their own personal understanding.
I mean, do I need a Cliff Notes book when listwening to Dylan. (well sometimes, but I dont need to understand every word he writes).
I focused on the feel of my song and created lyrics that rhymed and worked with the meter.

being very new to song writing I am asking for feedback on this subject.

the song is a work in progress nearing completion...I think....now I am unsure..
it is called Smoke His Brand. click on the blue line to hear it.
I have another versiopn coming once I mix in pedal steel guitar.

the lyrics are:

I'm thinking about my mother
she's a long time gone.
my fathers up in heaven
he's remembering his song.

life is kind of funny
it takes me by surprise.
when you're all growed up
you don't need your eyes.

I try to get it right
time and time again.
I lose some lovers
I lose some friends.

I miss my daddy
I smoke his brand
I wish he were around
to hear my steel guitar band.

I try to get right
time and time again.
when will you learn
broken hearts never mend.

I miss my daddy
I smoke his brand.
I wish he were around
to hear my steel guitar band.

do writers have to explian everything?

<minor edits - Laz>

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders


   
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(@boxboy)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1221
 

I'm sure this other person means well, db, but I think they're crazy.
I mean this song made people cry for cryin' out loud! That's a pretty clear indication you're getting through.
:)

Don


   
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 geoo
(@geoo)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2801
 

I have been thinking alot about this very topic. Many times when I write I will hear comment from those that are reading the song that they dont get it. But c'mon, when you listen to almost every song in any genre its that way too. If you are the creative person, then you are creating the art. Some will like it and some wont. But make it yours. I sure bet Dylan did.

Jim

“The hardest thing in life is to know which bridge to cross and which to burn” - David Russell (Scottish classical Guitarist. b.1942)


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4459
 

Yes as a writer I think you write what you feel and want to express, how the audience interprets that is a different story.

The song doesn't need to tell a story if you don't want it to.

You are the artist the paint brush is in your hands..paint what you want!

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@Anonymous)
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Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 

Yeah, don't write while thinking "what does the audience want"? A lot of modern bands do that these days (I'm thinking of 25 year old guys who, at their age, write about high school to please 14 year old boys and girls) and what do we get? Boring music.


   
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(@dogbite)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 6348
Topic starter  

AK, that is the sad truth.
writing is interesting. I hope I don't get to feeling I am back in school.
I have to keep things fresh and responsive.
just like playing a guitar.
thanks for the assurances.

OT. what is with this English band Babyshambles and this Dorherty dude?
I saw the euro awards. lots of lame celeb pop.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders


   
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(@Anonymous)
New Member
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Posts: 0
 

I forgot to mention that I really liked your lyrics!

Good job! :)


   
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(@vic-lewis-vl)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 10264
 

Reads pretty well to me, Dogbite. There's a fine line between putting what you feel in a song and putting what you feel SHOULD go in a song - but the best songwriters never worried that the audience wouldn't "get it." On the contrary, people like Dylan and Lennon credited their audiences with a glimmer of intelligence, or at least enough intelligence to put their own interpretation on the lyrics.

Don't worry about what other people think, write what you feel, but at the same time, FEEL what you're writing about. Songwriting's all about conveying an emotion, or a state of mind, or a mood - you don't have to let your audience into the secret, but you have to make them feel what you were feeling when you wrote the song.

Write your songs as if your audience is YOU.......

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)


   
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(@pearlthekat)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1468
 

not quite sure i understand the crit. the song has meaning, it's not hard to understand, and it tells a story.


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

Who gives a crap if people 'get the message'? I guess that if you write about personal things there'll always be things that people won't quite get, but that's no problem. It's more about the 'vibe' of the words then the actual story, people can pick up on the vibe of parts they dont get and fill in the blanks themselves. And if they can't then they're just a waste of DNA and you should pay no attention to them. Let's keep the prefab music for prefab minds. :wink:

On a more personal note, hardly anyone ever gets what I'm mumbling about so I've gotten kinda immune for those kinda critiques. For example, I recently did this tune:

I'm not the beginning
I hope I'm not the end
Guess I'll be the middle
Safely buried in the sand.

But I'm really just the monster
Who recently lost his claws
Still chewing on my feet
Remind me, by whose laws?

Did you hear the jester's Laughter
In the throneroom of all your Hells
When you noticed that both his eyes
Once belonged to somebody else?

Maybe you are the monster
But what does that make of me?
Am I your prince of emptiness
Lifted high for all too see?

Do people really interpretate it the way I see it myself? Probably not. Some people won't get it *at all*, some will interpretate it one way or the other and make it their own. That's perfectly fine with me. I think most popular music is like a movie, with a beginning, middle and end. My music is probably more like a photo, or an abstract paining. There's usually just either a beginning, middle or end and for the missing parts the song functions as a mirror.


   
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(@dogbite)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 6348
Topic starter  

very thoughtful replies. I agree.
play with feeling.
write with feeling.
sing with feeling.
feel with feeling.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders


   
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(@gnease)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

Meaning aside (I agree with general opinion there): If one solicits feedback or help in completing a song, then the writer or tunesmith needs to be prepared to hear opinions, and take "responsibility" for at least considering those opinions. And some of the dullest, artistically uninformed ( :wink: ) opinions may contain useful criticism, even if specific to taste. Being able filter use feedback effectively is a valuable songwriting skill.

Even the unwashed masses -- who may not be the intended audience (if anyone even is) -- are capable of providing useful feedback. Anyone ever heard these simply stated, easily dismissed, yet possibly dead-on observations from the local mouth-breather?: "Your songs all kinda sound the same." "Seems kind of cliche to me." "That reminds me of this other song." These unsolicited opinions might be worth some reflection if you ever intend to play that song again. And possibly, it was received exactly as you meant it, and that was not a warm and fuzzy or intellectually stimulating audience experience. But I would guess the writer/performer might have been shooting for an artistic reaction of some sort.

Also consider that if you are going to play originals for an audience -- or simply hand someone a page of lyrics, then that act creates a relationship. You started it. So what are you as a writer/performer trying to achieve in that relationship? Is it just delivery of a broadcast (oneway) message? Do you seek to entertain? Fishing for validation of your talent? How much do you really want and need to know how it was received? Maybe not at all. Maybe a lot. But if the audience listened to you, there is a good chance someone in that audience may feel you should at least listen to him or her in return.

-=tension & release=-


   
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(@dogbite)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 6348
Topic starter  

gnease. very wise post. I consider all those things whenever I put something out there.
I have been a visual artist for many years. I show my work every year. some of it is good some not as good.
some sells some never.
I should have a strong hide by now, but I don't . opinions matter on one hand. yet
I make what I want anyway. I always try to improve.
the improvement is for my own sake. but ultimately, the viewer or buyer will reap the reward.

I am new to song writing. at this stage I ask for opinions and comments as I find them valid and important in my process of learning how to communicate with this form.

I posted at Hear Here the latest version of my song.
I like it . it is complete and I can move on.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders


   
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(@smokindog)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5345
 

I still love that tune :D Greg does have a good point.It doesn't mean you have to take it to heart, but maybe use that information later on. I had an art teacher who suggested that when we get done with a project, we should destroy it, leave it behind, and start on the next thing :shock: Good thing Picasso, Hank Williams, Woody Guthrey, The Beatles and many more artists didn't head to that advice :lol: But the point is to learn from every thing you do and use it on something you do later :wink:

My Youtube Page
http://www.youtube.com/user/smokindog
http://www.soundclick.com/smokindogandthebluezers

http://www.soundclick.com/guitarforumjams


   
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