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Selling an iPod with songs: Is it legal?

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(@Anonymous)
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I hope this is posted in the right forum?

I just purchased a new 30gb iPod Video and I was going to sell my 4gb iPod Mini to cover part of the cost. The mini is full of songs. If I were to sell this on eBay with the songs still on it would it be legal or could the RIAA come after me for it? I saw a few on eBay with songs on them. I would only have a starting price of what I want for the iPod itself and not add more to the price for the songs. However with the bidding process who knows what the final price would be.

The majority of the songs on the iPod are from my CD collection and some were purchased from iTunes. It wouldn't take much to delete the songs if I must.

Thanks for your opinions!


   
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(@clazon)
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I think it is illegal, because you're not selling your hard copy of the music. I know that's not possible with iTunes files, but if you sold the CDs the songs came from with the iPod, it would be legal.

In general I think it's illegal, but if you don't advertise the fact that it has songs on, then who knows/cares?

"Today is what it means to be young..."

(Radiohead, RHCP, Jimi Hendrix - the big 3)


   
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(@smokindog)
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Did you pay for the tunes :?: If you did I don't see why it would be illegal.--the dog

On second thought, the tunes from your collection could be considered illegal :oops:

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(@elecktrablue)
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Good question! I have no idea for sure. But, it seems to me that if you can sell a used computer with the programs you installed after market (without charging more for those programs and not including the actual software as part of the deal), it seems like you would be able to sell a used iPod with whatever you had collected on it (without charging more for it). A lot of people aren't going to take the time to wipe everything they want to sell as used. But, like I said....... beats me all to pieces!!

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(@slejhamer)
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http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/02/13/riaa_ipod_warning/
Wipe your iPod before selling it, RIAA warns
By Tony Smith
13th February 2006 11:52 GMT

If you sell your iPod and don't remove your music first, you could find yourself with the Recording Industry Ass. of America (RIAA) breathing down your back. The organisation last week told sellers in the US that doing so is a clear violation of copyright law and warned them that it's sniffing out for infringers.

Apple's rapid iPod refresh schedule, not to mention those of its competitors, have generated a tide of old music player offers in classified ads columns and on sites like eBay. Rather too many sellers are shipping their old machines with music libraries intact - some we've seen even make a virtue of the fact.

But it's illegal, not only in the US but also in the UK and the rest of Europe. As, incidentally, is ripping all your CDs and LPs to MP3 then selling or even giving away the originals. By disposing of your physical media, you're ending your right to use the music they contain. The RIAA's point, made in an MTV online report is that handing over music on a music player is no different from duplicating a CD and selling the copy.

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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(@clazon)
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I still think selling a computer second hand with programs installed on it without supplying the original CDs is illegal in theory. But like many things, no-one cares.

"Today is what it means to be young..."

(Radiohead, RHCP, Jimi Hendrix - the big 3)


   
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(@slejhamer)
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Ha, funny, the abbreviation for "Association" in the original article got changed to "donkey." :D

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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(@Anonymous)
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http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/02/13/riaa_ipod_warning/
Wipe your iPod before selling it, RIAA warns
By Tony Smith
13th February 2006 11:52 GMT

If you sell your iPod and don't remove your music first, you could find yourself with the Recording Industry donkey. of America (RIAA) breathing down your back. The organisation last week told sellers in the US that doing so is a clear violation of copyright law and warned them that it's sniffing out for infringers.

Apple's rapid iPod refresh schedule, not to mention those of its competitors, have generated a tide of old music player offers in classified ads columns and on sites like eBay. Rather too many sellers are shipping their old machines with music libraries intact - some we've seen even make a virtue of the fact.

But it's illegal, not only in the US but also in the UK and the rest of Europe. As, incidentally, is ripping all your CDs and LPs to MP3 then selling or even giving away the originals. By disposing of your physical media, you're ending your right to use the music they contain. The RIAA's point, made in an MTV online report is that handing over music on a music player is no different from duplicating a CD and selling the copy.

I guess that answers my question but I don't agree with the RIAA's reasoning. I am NOT selling the music. I am selling the iPod. How about if I sell a car and advertise that it has a full tank of gas from Sunoco. Would that be illegal? I paid for the gas but since I lose my right by disposing of the "physical media" (a.k.a. the car) I can't sell the gas with it. Well you say...a car won't run without the gas! Then I reply "An iPod won't play without it's music!!"


   
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(@elecktrablue)
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Well, I think we all learned something useful!! Thanks for asking the question, Mike! :D

..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ -:¦:- Elecktrablue -:¦:-

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(@clazon)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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I guess that answers my question but I don't agree with the RIAA's reasoning. I am NOT selling the music. I am selling the iPod. How about if I sell a car and advertise that it has a full tank of gas from Sunoco. Would that be illegal? I paid for the gas but since I lose my right by disposing of the "physical media" (a.k.a. the car) I can't sell the gas with it. Well you say...a car won't run without the gas! Then I reply "An iPod won't play without it's music!!"

You can do that because you're selling the gas itself.

If you somehow duplicated the gas then sold the car and gas companies could take royalties and had copyright of their gas, then it'd be illegal.

"Today is what it means to be young..."

(Radiohead, RHCP, Jimi Hendrix - the big 3)


   
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(@u2bono269)
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How much of a royalty does each artist make on a Cd sale on average...anyone know?

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(@noteboat)
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About a buck on average. Some more, some less.

But record contracts are screwy things - as is the accounting behind them. Most bands don't see a dime of royalty money from albums, because first the royalties go to cover the recording costs, and then to cover whatever advance they got.

So...

500,000 copies sold x say .85 royalty = 425,000

Recording costs: ($300,000)
Advance: ($100,000)

Net royalty due the artist: $25,000

And that's for a monster hit.

As to selling an Ipod, let's say I have a collection of books. I like to read them at the beach, so I make photocopies of every book - that way I don't mess up the originals if it starts to rain. Perfectly legal, since it's for my own use and I legally purchased the original books.

Now I sell a bookcase - with all my photocopies (but none of the originals) in it.

Just as illegal as selling the Ipod - if you part with the copy, but keep the original, you're breaking the law.

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(@smokindog)
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How much of a royalty does each artist make on a Cd sale on average...anyone know?

It depends, But most artists make most of their money on concert sales I think.--the dog

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(@Anonymous)
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Noteboat,

I understand what you're saying but then we do not actually "purchase" anything that is copywrited...we "RENT" them. If we actually OWNED them we'd be able to do as we choose with them. At school we make copies of texts for the students all the time...is that illegal? There is NO WAY a school can purchase enough materials at the prices today for ALL of the students that grace our halls.

I understand the legalities of file sharing via the internet. But if one were to sell an item such as an iPod WITHOUT selling it for MORE than what it would cost retail I don't see a problem with that. It's not like it's worth buying a bunch of iPods and reselling them with music on them...there'd be no profit to make...

I'll bet we will be seeing the laws changing in the near future. The law should require the music industry to make it clear that we do not actually purchase copywrited materials.


   
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(@clazon)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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How much of a royalty does each artist make on a Cd sale on average...anyone know?

It depends, But most artists make most of their money on concert sales I think.--the dog

Yeah, gigging and touring is how the band get their money, as I understand.

"Today is what it means to be young..."

(Radiohead, RHCP, Jimi Hendrix - the big 3)


   
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