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Van Halen Live Goof


(@beaner)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 122
Topic starter  

I'm surprised this hasn't come up here yet, but has been doing the rounds on the tech websites.

This one first
http://warmowski.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/jump-in-pitch/

Then this one
http://warmowski.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/whos-right-slap-fight/

My ears not that good, so I can't decide who's at fault. Either ways it's awful.

Regards,
Paul


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(@katmetal)
Honorable Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 727
 

Wow! That's the first I heard it. I can't believe a "pro" band had issues like this. I have been in a few "hairy" situations myself with gigs that didn't go right, but never anything this bad. Problem magnified since he couldn't play between frets! I hate to laugh, but...


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(@beaner)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 122
Topic starter  

I've read comments on quite a few sites, from people who were there and swear it sounded fine, so the video might be doctored somehow. Just remember how good the internet is for spreading misinformation.

Regards,
Paul


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(@katmetal)
Honorable Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 727
 

I've read comments on quite a few sites, from people who were there and swear it sounded fine, so the video might be doctored somehow. Just remember how good the internet is for spreading misinformation.Yeah, the 'net is good for that, but I would venture to say the video isn't altered. Watch at the start of the video; the first few chords/notes, Eddie walks back from the front of the stage with his back to the audience & is picking & checking over the guitar. He knows it is goofed up at that point, but what is he to do?!?! Song's started, he's stuck!

I read all the ridiculous theories on that page, & I really can't believe musicians? are all over the place with it. If you compare the synth to other clips of the same song, it is in the same key; It would appear that Eddie's guitar has the trem improperly blocked, forcing it flat. Again, since it was between frets, wasn't much he could do to compensate, other than a lot of string bending.


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(@falcon1)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 176
 

Apparently his guitar went out of tune during a solo when he banged the headstock accidentally...must have popped something out of whack with the floyd rose...or so I have seen a few people say. Mistakes are bound to happen I suppose though...even to some of the biggest rock bands around! :)


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(@musica23)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 278
 

Too bad they've got such a "big show" that they can't just be spontaneous and fix the problem(s) even if it means making the fans wait for a few. While I admittedly enjoy some high-tech, everything-in-step, unbending big time concerts, most of my favorites have been a lot more laid back. The bigger the artist, the tougher they are to find, however.

I haven't seen Bonnie Raitt live in a while, but even after her huge Grammy score, she managed to keep her gigs real. She'd pick up her Strat, for example, and then change her mind and play an unplanned song on acoustic. Emmylou Harris is also great for this, though they all have setlists. It's just that they can allow for some changes (and even accommodate a request or two!) because they love playing their music as much as we love hearing it. And their pre-recorded keyboards, lights, dancers, etc. never get out of sync cuz they don't have any. It's all the way live! :D

Love and Peace or Else,
CC


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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5599
 

Yeah, to me sounds like Eddie's guitar is way out of tune. Very sour sounding. It is not just that it is out of sync with the keyboards, it is out of tune altogether. The bass guitar sounded fine.

So much for Floyd Rose's. I told you they go out of tune.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


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(@kingpatzer)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2198
 

Yeah, to me sounds like Eddie's guitar is way out of tune. Very sour sounding. It is not just that it is out of sync with the keyboards, it is out of tune altogether. The bass guitar sounded fine.

So much for Floyd Rose's. I told you they go out of tune.

My guesses are that either it's a FOH effect that Eddie can't hear, or the backing track was being replayed at the wrong sample rate or reference pitch. In any case, the sound guy should be strung up by his toenails for not either pulling one of the backing track or the guitar . . .

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5599
 

Kingpatzer

It may have been the keys were played wrong speed, but to me Eddie's guitar sounds completely out of tune with itself. I am surprised he doesn't have several spares he could grab quickly. I could be wrong but I think the guitar was out of tune with everything, the bass sounded fine with the keyboard track.

By the way, being that far out of tune you will never get back in tune with a Floyd Rose, especially if you are using locking nuts. On the other hand, if he simply used a Strat type trem he could have quickly retuned to pitch using the tuners on the headstock. This is why I personally dislike Floyd Rose systems. Useless in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


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(@musica23)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 278
 

kingpatzer wrote (in part):
...the backing track was being replayed at the wrong sample rate or reference pitch...

That's what I think (and that's what the guy with the website thinks). That's why I said "out of sync" (not exactly the same, but similar idea). I just can't believe that EVH wouldn't have a back-up guitar (or 3) for every single song! And I agree that the sound guy(s) should be at least partially beaten to a pulp (and I'm a pacifist ).

It seems kinda like when I try to play along with a CD and the pitch is off either more or less than a 1/2 step. I have to tune my guitar to the CD, which has been either sped up or slowed down slightly. I really can't believe that Eddie doesn't know whether or not he's in tune, and I'd think he'd walk off and switch guitars if it would help (and it wouldn't if it's the reference pitch theory). I honestly couldn't really hear the bass, btw.

My only other thought is that this is an internet hoax. Anyone see/hear that particular show live??? :?

Love and Peace or Else,
CC


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(@falcon1)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 176
 

Here is a link to a VH forum I visit sometimes about this incident:
http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/tell-me-you-guys-have-seen-this-t40812.html

It can get a bit...well...hairy in some of those threads, but some good insight nonetheless.


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(@boxboy)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1226
 

Yeah, to me sounds like Eddie's guitar is way out of tune. Very sour sounding. It is not just that it is out of sync with the keyboards, it is out of tune altogether. The bass guitar sounded fine.

So much for Floyd Rose's. I told you they go out of tune.

I agree. The vocals and bass find/match the key straight off but the guitar...

Don


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(@musica23)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 278
 

First of all, I cannot believe I just spent the past hour reading/watching/listening to cellphone video clips of this year's Van Halen doing "Jump." In any key. I had no idea this was such a major internet topic. And furthermore, I have no idea why I care(d). And now, I feel compelled to share my thoughts with all of you. :|

My hubby finally humored me and witnessed the trainwreck with me. He says it's not nearly as bad as he'd expected (I guess not...after hearing from me that it was practically the latest sign of the apocalypse... ). His primary observation was that "the singer is off-key."

After this upcoming summation, I may never care to hear or discuss VH again. OK...

1) After watching other videos of "Jump" from this tour, I detect that the keyboard sounds the same. Same key, same bitrate (I guess), same pitch, same ol' song and dance.

2) Wolfie looks bored in every one of the clips. I still find his bass difficult to hear, but I'll venture a guess that he's in tune with the keyboard. I never saw a picture of him before. It was interesting to finally see him "in action." Yippee.

3) Roth could have been a successful majorette. Also, I like his new hair and I think he should lose the giant mic. How can my husband tell he's off-key? He sounds just like he always did.

4) Alex is hard to see. I hear his drumming. He, too, sounds just like he always did.

5) I am neutral re: Michael Anthony's firing. But I can rule him out as being the culprit here. Or can I????? Is he the keyboardist behind the curtain???? And if so, why does it sound OK? What about Sammy??? Are they in cahoots??? Do they have enough money between them to pay someone off to screw up VH's final song of one concert????

6) I noticed that in the clips where Eddie is in tune with everyone (the whole universe, in fact), he is playing his Frankenstein. In the trainwreck "Jump" he is suspiciously playing a different custom guitar. It is prettier by far. But it sounds putrid. It is out of tune with the rest of the band, but I don't know why as I wasn't there (not that I'd know why had I been there). Is it in tune with itself? I think so. But it sounds so horrid with the other instruments that it's hard for me to say.

Those are my final observations. Thank you. Good night, and good luck.

Love and Peace or Else,
CC


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(@steve-0)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1165
 

Hey everyone, I haven't been online in a while (due to work and various guitar projects) but I've been reading this topic and thought I'd weigh in.

Everyone seems to mention that Eddie's guitar sounds off, which is true, but I've also heard rumours that the "keyboard sample" that was played (I don't know whether or not this is true, but it seems odd that VH wouldn't just hire a keyboard player) was played at a slightly higher speed than usaul. Iwould assume there was some mix-up that would've made the track play about 10 Hz or so faster (or slower) than intended.

Steve-0


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