What would make you feel you’re now a “Good” player?

So I started strumming along to some of the songs and it clicked. I started to know when the chords were going to be changed.

I had one of those moments a couple of years ago - I like to play along with the radio, and I either listen to a golden oldies channel or a classic rock station. After a while I noticed I was beginning to anticipate the next chord, and the chord changes were getting smoother, too. Especially true where 60's pop music is involved - a lot of them are G, Em C and D (albeit in different keys....so call it the I - VIm - IV - V of whatever key you're in.) The only hard part is anticipating key changes, and after a while they seem fairly easy.

Playing along with the radio also has the added bonus (well I've found this, anyway!) of really tightening up your timing and strumming.

:D :D :D

Vic

I'm using a website (good-ear.com) that generates pitches to identify
This is a good site, I've never come across this before. Thanks.

As regards feeling you're now a good player. What or who is the benchmark? I guess that would be different for all of us. For me, the important question I constantly ask myself is this; "What have I learned to do/improve on at the conclusion of this practice session?"

I'm using a website (good-ear.com) that generates pitches to identify
This is a good site, I've never come across this before. Thanks.

As regards feeling you're now a good player. What or who is the benchmark? I guess that would be different for all of us. For me, the important question I constantly ask myself is this; "What have I learned to do/improve on at the conclusion of this practice session?"

I don't always feel like that :lol: Sometimes I just did it to pass a bit of time or have fun, doesn't always have to be like schoolwork to me - I did x and I acheived y from doing that.

I don't always feel like that :lol: Sometimes I just did it to pass a bit of time or have fun, doesn't always have to be like schoolwork to me - I did x and I acheived y from doing that.
I'm definitely with you on this fleaaaaaa. I don't think I explained it very well, when I read my post again it did seem to come across as a bit rigid :roll: I look to improve in "Practice Sessions" which I regularly set time aside for. But there are loads of other times I play for fun where I just "play" and enjoy the guitar for it's own merit.

But there are loads of other times I play for fun where I just "play" and enjoy the guitar for it's own merit.

That's it. There is nothing else...really. Nothing else.

Good post...

Cat

Thanks Cat, appreciate that.

I had an interesting experience today that reminded me of this thread - specifically, the ear training part.

I'm giving a piano lesson to a teenage girl. It's her second lesson ever, but she's practiced a lot from what I showed her last week. We're starting to work with simple melodies that use both hands, but not at the same time. The piece in the method book is eight measures long. I cover the new concepts with her, and play through it to demonstrate.

It's her turn. She starts to play, and I'm looking back and forth between her hands and the music. She's playing it perfectly. I glance up at her face....

She's looking at the wrong page.

She finishes playing, without making any mistakes. But she's done the entire thing from memory, after hearing it just once. What a tremendous gift for music - and what a terrible handicap to have! As the music gets longer and more complicated, she's going to reach a point where she won't be able to do it without reading - and she'll have no reading skills at all, which will make it a struggle.

I'm working on a plan to fix that next lesson :)

She finishes playing, without making any mistakes. But she's done the entire thing from memory, after hearing it just once. What a tremendous gift for music - and what a terrible handicap to have! As the music gets longer and more complicated, she's going to reach a point where she won't be able to do it without reading - and she'll have no reading skills at all, which will make it a struggle.

:mrgreen:

That sums up perfectly why I stopped having piano lessons a few years ago. :oops: I had decided, after a 40 year gap, to try and have another bash at piano. But I couldn't read music, so I found the double task of trying to learn to read and learn to play at the same time was just too much for the old hands and brain. To the teacher, the meaning of notes were self-evident and second nature, but they weren't to me, so what sounded like grindingly slow progress at hand coordination and/or timing was actually overload caused mostly by the inability to decode the notes.

So I did what your student probably did - relied on a combination of memory and decoding the notes very slowly. As soon as I had the tune in my head I'd just play by ear and pretend to read. I suspect that's pretty common, and there are now piano teaching systems that don't require reading, perhaps to get round that precise problem.

The downsides were exactly as you said, with the additional problem that I couldn't restart from a given bar, but had to begin again either from the start, or from a natural break somewhere. I dropped the lessons - it was just too frustrating. Some years later I learnt to read music and went back and had another shot at piano. Ironically, the new teacher I contacted turned out to use a system that didn't require students to be able to read!! So I had a few lessons from him and then went back to traditional books that use notation.

Oddly enough, when I taught my son to read and write English, we began by using familiar books that he had enjoyed when they were read on his favourite kids TV show. One day I noticed that he was still reading the story to me but hadn't turned the page. He was using exactly the same trick - memorising the story from the TV and just running the ‘tape' in his head! Word perfect too.

Cheers,

Chris

One thing that makes me feel good is that I can improvise ideas off the top of my head..... I think they're quite good sometimes and I think that's kind of a nice skill to have because it means I can make up little ideas and just rely myself to play something without having to have learnt an actual piece.

...she's done the entire thing from memory, after hearing it just once. What a tremendous gift for music - and what a terrible handicap to have! As the music gets longer and more complicated, she's going to reach a point where she won't be able to do it without reading - and she'll have no reading skills at all, which will make it a struggle.

That was a great catch on your part...
I'm working on a plan to fix that next lesson :)

...and she may not thank you for catching it. With that gift, she may ask, why should I learn to read? For a long time I thought people with that gift should not learn how to read, as if learning to read would kill the gift. And as a reader I felt the same way about ear-playing -- that somehow it was "either/or." It's not; it's "both/and," if one cares to put in the work. When it's "both/and," reading can feed ear-playing, and vice versa. But this can be hard to figure out. Hope you will keep us posted on her progress, and yours. :wink:

The immediate last two posts are familiar to me. Yes, being able to "write" what's in your head is a plateau...but, like me, I never "wrote" as in reading music, because I never had to. Write? I wish could! But I can't...but I can! :lol:

Cat

She finishes playing, without making any mistakes. But she's done the entire thing from memory, after hearing it just once. What a tremendous gift for music - and what a terrible handicap to have! As the music gets longer and more complicated, she's going to reach a point where she won't be able to do it without reading - and she'll have no reading skills at all, which will make it a struggle.

I'm working on a plan to fix that next lesson :)

NB, I was just watching a video with Jaco Pastorious and he addressed that issue head on. :)
Described himself, with no apology, as 'naturally gifted'. Explained that meant he could gig at a young age, smooth sailing...and then he hit a wall of complexity for what he aspired to do and he had to learn to read. Described it as a real chore at that point. :lol:

Don...I've given up trying to "read". My head and fingers are way too far out in front...like me on a real little kid's tricycle. If there was a functional way to learn...I'd be game to try again. Yes, quite a chore... :?

Cat

Don...I've given up trying to "read". My head and fingers are way too far out in front...like me on a real little kid's tricycle. If there was a functional way to learn...I'd be game to try again.

So you haven't given up! This is wonderful news! I'm sure NoteBoat knows the "functional ways to learn" for adults of any age & experience level. Perhaps he can recommend one. Then you can keep us filled in on your progress toward becoming a Complete Musician.

:D :lol: :D

Seriously, however, if a bit off-topic: Another advantage of standard notation is the ability to jot down ideas wherever you are, if you have one of those little Moleskine staff-paper notebooks & a pencil in your pocket. I also have scraps of melody written on staves hand-drawn on the backs of napkins & matchbooks, in restaurants & airports, over the past 30 years. Even with digital advances, it's hard to do that with electronic appliances.

For a long time I thought people with that gift should not learn how to read, as if learning to read would kill the gift. And as a reader I felt the same way about ear-playing -- that somehow it was "either/or." It's not; it's "both/and," if one cares to put in the work. When it's "both/and," reading can feed ear-playing, and vice versa.

I completely agree with Crow that it's not some kind of choice between one or the other. Exactly the same notion also comes up over and over again in debates on learning "Theory" . Some people who have avoided learning much theory often having the odd notion that it would cramp their style in some way, or be some sort of strait-jacket that limits free spirited creativity - which is complete bunk! Whether it's Theory or Notation it's all just tools and guidelines - not essential but very useful if you have them. Far from cramping your style, a bit of theory knowledge can help you move your explorations around more quickly and illuminate new potential jumping off points and possibilities. You can be an unimaginative and limited 'ear natural' just as easily as a dull plodding Theory Whizz. Either way, it's not the fault of the tools. :)

As I said on another thread:

I'd rather have a really good ear than be a really fast reader. But it's not some kind of either/or choice - you can go for both. It a bit like being asked "Which would you rather have - plenty of sex, plenty of money or plenty of fun?" Uh, I'll go for the full set thanks.

I learned to read music late in the game and it's been a great asset. In a funny way it's contributed to whatever feelings that I can allow myself about thinking I'm getting good. I feel proud of the achievement and that makes me want to use it more. It motivates me to pick up songbooks and play the contents, and the more I play the better I get. It also doesn't force me to play only what's written on the page either. My usual pattern is to run through once or twice and then start improvising and trying other variations - not because I think that's an especially meritorious approach but simply because that's what I enjoy doing. Music isn't a daily job for me, it's a daily joy. :)

Cheers,

Chris