Why are players so under-appreciated?

I think alot of it may have to do with age as well. When you'e younger, even though you try and be a "rebel" you're really quite afraid to be seen as different from your friends. You listen to and play the same type of music, you dress the same, wear your hair the same play the same games. When you are younger you also tend to do your thinking from below the waste instead of from above it.
Rock and blues are music for below the waist, there is no thinking required, it is pure emotion. Listen the the rhythm of a rock or blues tune, the only purpose for that kind of beat is to have sex. It's what it's all about.

Now as we get older, we use our big heads a bit more as time goes by, we want intellectual stimulation as well as physical, we don't worry as much about standing out a bit from our friends, we are more secure in who we are so are more willing to try new things. New foods, new clothes and new music. We are much more willing to acknowledge the beauty in a carefully crafted melodic flamenco, classical or jazz passage and to give the player of that passage the respect he deserves. As we are age we also have more disposable income, so instead of having to choose between getting an album from the latest hotshot player and an album from a past master we can afford both, giving us an opportunity to broaden our tastes.

very well put Ron, glad to see ya on the boards again

Thanks Twisty, just had so much going on, new job, teaching, dance lessons, stuff with the kid. Since someone mentioned Ms. Mitchell in another thread I'll quote her "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got till it's gone?"

Didn't realize how much I missed this place till I didn't hang around here for a few months.

Weird, my teacher was showing me how a lot of the chord shapes in Nirvana are seen in flamenco as well. Chord extensions and what not. I don't think there is a difference between a classical master and a rock star. Maybe their attitudes are different, but the reason people appreciate their music is the same: they hear the music, they like it and listen to more of it.

Wow, I am really late getting in on this one.

I think the difference is that some players know how to communicate with their audience better than others. Some players draw their audience in and make them feel like part of the show, while others play ABOVE the crowd.

Take Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck. Jeff Beck is easily a far better player than EC, but EC has always enjoyed more popularity, and you will almost always see EC rated in "who's the best guitarist" polls rated higher than Jeff.

I really believe it's because Eric Clapton can pull a crowd in better than Jeff. Eric Clapton makes you feel like a close friend you've known all your life. Jeff Beck just cannot do that. He is the great guitarist showing you how great he is. He is above you. And that turns people off.

Kurt Cobain had that quality. He was that cool but totally reckless guy we all knew in High School. He never came across as someone who even cared about who was better. He was just himself no matter what. And that is very charismatic.

But a lot of players come across as intellectual and even snobbish. This turns people off. I went back and watched both the Jimi Hendrix and John McLaughlin (sp?) videos. First, if you don't think that Hendrix guitar is great, you are not listening. Hendrix has dynamics up the ying-yang. That is as cool as guitar can be. And you can follow it. It is not above your head. On the other hand, JM is super-noodling. Wow, look at me, I can play every scale known to man at 200 BPM!

So Hendrix plays for the crowd, John McLaughlin plays at the crowd. Big difference.

And the people can tell. Like John Lennon said, "One thing you can't hide, is when you tickle inside".

I think you comparison of Beck and Clapton is faulty. The difference between the two of them is Beck has always backed away from the spotlight while Clapton has done everything including top 40 to stay in the spotlight.
When Beck is on, and enjoying what he is doing he does a very good job of engaging his audience, he plays to the crowd and draws you in, what Beck won't do is play to the lowest common denominator, he won't "Dumb down" the music to be accepted.

I think it is far simpler than that, Wes. If the player performs songs that appeal to the greater number, the player will get more exposure and be more likely to appear at the top of polls. If I am listening to a tune built around the voice of the guitar, I will nearly always go for Beck over Clapton. However, I usually want to enjoy the whole package, and Clapton has been a part of many more enjoyable songs than Beck. Clapton's playing integrates better into what has become popular music than does Beck's.

And of course, we are all wired differently -- most for pop (that's what appeals to the popular masses, right?). By the time a person hits 25, one usually knows whether or not one's tastes are mainsteam or "somewhere in the tails." And it's all okay. It only gets annoying when some imply that those of different tastes must be unenlightened or ignorant of some obvious truth. We like what we like. Exposure to new experiences is often good, and definitely an opportunity to expand one's world. But most people settle with what they already know and stay there. Musically, that will be what we have heard while growing up -- whether from older sibs, movie soundtracks, commercials or dorm roommates. (But only rarely parents ... until one hits 40!)

Teleplayer

I don't think Eric Clapton dumbs down his music. He quit the Yardbirds when they were doing quite well because he did not want to play commercial music. I've never really thought of ECs music as pop. I really feel he only plays music he truly enjoys.

Greg

I agree with you. But some people do not like sophisticated music. I have always enjoyed simple music myself.

There will always be that crowd that does go for complex, sophisticated music. And these people will probably enjoy John McLaughlin more than Eric Clapton. But the majority of people just want to enjoy a good song they can follow. And they will go for EC.

I would rather eat a hamburger than caviar. Guess I'm just a blue-collar guy.

I think it is wrong to label people who play popular music as "sellouts". I think most musicians play music they enjoy and for most that just happens to be popular music.

The reason it is popular is because people like it, not the other way around.

And when you ask someone who they think is a great guitarist, they will probably name someone who plays guitar they enjoy, not the greatest technical player. To them a technical player is no good, because they do not play enjoyable music.

After all, it is about MUSIC, not who can play the fastest scales and arpeggios.

Exposure to new experiences is often good, and definitely an opportunity to expand one's world. But most people settle with what they already know and stay there. Musically, that will be what we have heard while growing up -- whether from older sibs, movie soundtracks, commercials or dorm roommates. (But only rarely parents ... until one hits 40!)

The music from our youth creates the soundtracks of our lives.....

Gotta write a song from that line someday.....

After all, it is about MUSIC, not who can play the fastest scales and arpeggios.

Exactly my feeling on the subject, Wes!

Wes you are right it is all about the music and gnease your right about everyone being wired differently.

I really think my tastes run more in line with what Wes decribed, I like fairly simple music. Why? I have no idea but I can tell usually in the first 20 - 30 secs or less of a song if I like it or not. Sometimes a song will grow on me but rarely. I usually know right from the start.

No with that said I would probably say of the Jeff Becks, John Mclaughlin, Yngwie, Steve Vai, I don't like anything these guys ever did or at least what I've heard.

I grew up in the classic rock era and I do like alot of those artists but I also like new stuff like Panic at the Disco, some Fallout Boy etc.

The difficult part is trying to find guys my age who want to play Panic at the Disco songs...so I've pretty much stuck to classic rock.

But to get to the original question these so called under appreciated artists don't make music that the "masses" like hence they will never get rated high on a poll of guitarists....it is all about the music in the end.

Guitar playing is an embellishment to the music it isn't the music itself and the Jeff Becks of the world although technically great never made great music.

I do agree that the music you heard in your youth becomes your favorite to a degree. But it is not always so. I grew up listening to nothing but Country music, my dad was a huge fan and had hundreds of albums, and the radio was always tuned to Country. But myself and younger brother still liked Rock music far more and still do. So people are not bound simply by what they are exposed to.

Some people claim that Classical music like Mozart and Beethoven was the popular music of it's day. I do not believe this is really so. This was the music primarily of the rich upper class. This music was published and so has survived. But I am willing to bet that the vast majority of people in those times listened to simple folk music and preferred it over the more complicated Classical. But this music was not published and so has not survived to a great degree to this time.

Music does not have to be complicated to be enjoyed. Most people prefer music they can follow and sing along to.

When mass media via radio became widespread and everyone could afford and buy a radio or record player, this is when you saw the great emergence of simpler forms of music like Blues, Country, and early Jazz. And this is when the great decline of Classical music began. People preferred simpler music, so this is what the stations played, and what the record companies produced.

It is not simply what you are exposed to. People are more intelligent and sophisticated than that. They like music like Rock, Blues, and Country because this music sounds better to them than Classical or more complex music.

I agree with what Jerry Lee Lewis said and put in my signature:

"If you know something that sounds better than Rock N Roll, I'd love to hear it"

Guitar playing is an embellishment to the music it isn't the music itself and the Jeff Becks of the world although technically great never made great music.

It's not quite that black and white. Beck has contributed to a few tunes that are considered great, classic music by some. But I doubt any were written by him -- Yardbird's Heart Full of Soul, stuff on 'Truth' such as I Ain't Superstitious and later on, Goodbye Porkpie Hat come to mind.

Hi guys, I'm late to the dance, as usual, but I need to weigh in on Jeffery Beck. This thread isn't about him, but I agree that he embodies some of what this thread intended.

I LOVE hard rock. I LOVE instrumental guitar. I LOVE classic rock. I don't LOVE Jeff Beck. Why is that? I don't know, but I always felt that his playing was esoteric and never connected with me. I bought his "greatest solo hits" disc to listen to it from a guitar point of view. I thought the guitar playing was masterful, but it didn't speak to me. It seemed like a really talented person arranging very complicated schemes, but those schemes didn't speak to me.

I feel the very same about Eric Clapton. While I like some of his stuff, the way he plays guitar just doesn't hit me in the face. Again, it feels like it is devoid of emotion (the later stuff - maybe because he switched to a Strat? I kid... I kid).

Anyway, the point of my rambling is that neither one of those guys would hit my "best guitarist" list because I don't particularly like their music. The same is true for what KP is talking/asking about. If I've never heard of Django (and I hadn't before joing GuitarNoise) why would I list him on a favorite list? In fact, I still haven't heard his music (my guitar instructor told me he's amazing, so I'll have to listen).

Point in case... my best bud is a drummer and he's AMAZING. Still stuck doing weddings and bar gigs, but he's amazing. If you went to see him you'd say he's as good as any drummer you've seen this side of Peart. AND, the guitar player in his band is flawless. Plays his Anderson Strat like it is connected to him. He plays disco/fusion (early 70's dance) with a rock spin (to get the ladies dancing) and I HATE that music, but I LOVE them playing it because he's so good that he makes the music interesting. He's not on anyone's list, but I'm sure he's better than some who are.

Beck never made great music? Have you ever actually listened to Beck? Listened to things like "Cause we ended as Lovers" , Freeway Jam, his version of Greensleeves off the Truth album? Listen to The Pump. Almost every hit the Yardbirds had was because of Becks playing. You're way off base on this one C

To be honest I never really checked out Jeff Beck, I was familiar with some of the stuff he did with Rod Stewart of course so as I was reading this post I figured I would look on Youtube and see what he was about...he is good and really interesting to watch..here is a clip with some good close ups of him playing without a pick which I think is kinda cool, good bluesy song too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuK2msTzec

Scott