Y12 W11

Well, it still looks a pretty good start, Trev....if you've still got hopes for this after a couple of years, let's see if we can come up with a few suggestions for you. Here are mine....

1 - The first two short stanzas and the longer stanza - I presume that's the chorus - are pretty much OK. BUT....there's always a but isn't there!...I presume (again) you're not sure where to go next? My suggestion is, repeat the formula of the first two short stanzas, but use the present tense instead of the past...losing my sanity, losing my will to live, losing my grip on reality, something along those lines.

2 - The chorus next. EITHER - keep it exactly the same, or possibly change it around slightly...."I want to get out of this web of lies," active instead of passive. I'd go that way, personally. Then...

3 - You need to expand on the web of lies theme. Who lied? What damage did it do? This is where a bridge would help.....

4- then you can either wrap it up with another chorus....changing it slightly again, either "got to get out of this web of lies"....more urgency....or "getting out of this web of lies," even more active than the 2nd chorus.

0r 5 - you could put another short verse in....just one, as opposed to two this time, possibly slowed down and quieter for impact, looking to the future..."I don't want to lose you forever, " or "I WON'T lose you forever"...then go to the last chorus.

I'm not trying to write the song for you, I'm suggesting themes and thought processes rather than actual lyrics...hopefully a few more people will suggest ideas or a possibly a different direction.

But if there's one piece of advice I would ask you to take to heart, it's this....THINK about where you want your songs to go. Do you want to tell a story, set a mood, or just throw a few random ideas out? Do you want to write songs, or just jot a verse down and leave it? You have to WORK at songwriting, and if you want to finish a song, you have to THINK about it. Dunno about you, but the buzz I get when I've I've finished a song - especially if it turns out to be a keeper - is always worth the hard work you have to put into the writing process. As Lennon once said, "genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration." In other words, it's no good having a great idea for a song if you're not prepared to work on it.

That's not a criticism, mate....you've written songs before, some good, some not so good...like everyone else who's ever written songs. Me, you, David, NIck, Kath, PBee, Celt, Johntoffee...and everyone else who's ever posted here...we've all been through the same thing. All I'm doing is passing on the same advice I got when I started writing for the SSG way back in year 2 - and I honestly can't remember whether it was David, Nick or Bob...or even someone else....who PM'd me and said something like, "Vic, you write decent songs...or half songs. You just need to think more about the direction you want to go after you've got your hook line. Positive, negative? Flashback, future? Love, or lost love? make sure you tell the WHOLE story, not just half of it. Don't be satisfied with your first effort - ask yourself what you can do to make it better? Then ask yourself what you'd write if you were critiquing someone else's song."

I've got no qualifications for this job...like you, I want to write songs.But like I said before, that buzz you get when you think you've written something worth recording is indescribable. I'm slowly beginning to remember how it feels again, after a bleak period.....hope you're starting to think the same way. Last time you posted a song on here was probably the last time the Aussies held the Ashes - well you've got 'em back now for a couple of years AND hold the RL World Cup, everything in the garden's rosy....at least for a couple of years....so get writing again! Preferably with that lovely new Strat by your side so's you can work on chords while you're writing lyrics...well, that's what works for me.

Good to have you back, mate!

:D :D :D

Vic

WOW ...
What can I say Vic , thank you for the brilliant advice and yeah I know what your are talking about in every sentence - I have never stopped writing I just found it hard and harder to follow a theme that someone else set - Then all my surgeries happened an I just lost my way a bit - I m glad you posted on my Face Book page to get my butt back in here an writing . I have really missed the constructive help and the criticism . One can not improve whilst one does not listen and be prepared to open the mind an take ideas on board .
Now tell me how to post a photo and I will show off my lovely new blue strat :)
Thank Vic your a bloody legend ! ( Even Trudy thinks that ) :D :D :D :D :D

Wow Vic :D ,

Trev there is excellent advice here, you could pay a lot of money for the wisdom that Vic has offered here. Just to reinforce one point in there, there is always a point when writing a song that you have to decide what its about. At that point you have to decide how you are going to deliver that to your listener. Remember your telling a story, your building up your case (like a lawyer does) each new bit supporting what went before it. At the end of the story you will have delivered the fundamental message.
So in this case if being "caught in a web of lies" is the point, i.e. what you want us to remember after the song is over (generally the chorus is used for this purpose) then the rest of the song needs to tell the story of how or why this happens.

I think this song has a lot of potential as it a universal theme that most people can relate to. My advice would be to write this song, however long it takes based on Vics advice, finish it and then lets us have another look at it. Keep revising it until its a song that you would be happy with.

cheers

Paul

Thank you Mr Brady ;)

Yes I understand what you and Vic are saying an this is a major work in progress lol - I love how it starts an Keep finger picking some Open chords an humming it - I have been stuck at this point for far too long - Might just play some Chords in Drop D and crack the amp up an see if that helps lol

I appreciate such great advise Paul an Vic

Trev.. :note1: :note2: :note1: :note2: :note2: :note1: :note2: :note2:

Hi Trev,

kudos for getting going on this :D

2 more cents to add to Vic's dollar jar's worth of advice :wink: ....Remember your title is the spotlight or anchor for the song.

If "Ellen Avenue" is to remain the title, be sure every line supports and expands that idea.....

.....if you've come across a better idea with the idea of "Web of Lies", then make that your title and develop the idea around it.

James

Thanks James - I have no idea where I am going with this - but I don't want to discard it just yet , been too long doodling with it :)
Thanks again

Trev... :note1: :note2: :note2: :note1: :note2: :note2: :note1:

A good start. That's probably not what you want to hear after working on a song for two years.

I agree that the "web of lies" needs to be expanded. Also, I would revise this line:
"Now I am dying on the floor."
It seems like it's just thrown in there to make the rhyme. It also doesn't tie in well with this:
"Don't want to live , Don't want to die"

On edit, I'm thinking that "dying on the floor" would work better as "lying on the floor"

Thank you Hobson :)

It is something I am really struggling with -
My original idea was to have all the negatives at the start of the song aka
I lost my soul in Ellen Avenue then at the end of the song to have
I found my soul in Ellen Avenue
And so on but the story in between is all muddled an clashes with irony which is what I don't want - blah .... blah ....
I am seriously hating this song ...
ha ha ha ha I can not for the life of me get it out of my head ...

Thank you all for your feed back

Trev... :D :D :note1: :note2: :note2: :note1: :note2: :note2: