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Does being a girl make you good?

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(@snake)
New Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4
 

Does your guitar know the difference?
Do you really think I should care about your gender, if your guitar doesn't either?
Isn't your guitar the one who makes all the important decisions, anyway?


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(@mr-glorypants)
New Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4
 

ok guys lets cut the crap here... ;) All of us guys know, If a girl picks up a guitar at a party and she is just rockin out, its friggen awesome, its twice as good as seeing a guy do it, I mean come on, face it, its down right hot. 8)

" WAyne Gretzky......I think hes kinda sexy"


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(@shinypinkguitar)
Eminent Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 25
 

I think the moral of the story is that being a girl doesn't make you good, and I hope that women players aren't just judged by their looks alone but as good (or bad) players in their own right.  One of my fave female bands is Sleater-Kinney - I think they really rock as much as any male indie-rock band!

That being said, it's a nice bonus when you've got someone attractive to look at when you go to watch a band  ;) and it can't be denied that we all like to see pretty people - male or female - play guitar.....rock n' roll is sexy!

xx

http://www.chinmusicrocks.co.uk


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(@xlosexyoux)
Active Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 12
 

i don't think that it automatically makes you a better musician being a girl but you get more encouragement. in school we have a class called applied ensamble where students can bring in their own instruments and books and work on it. the majority of the students bring guitars and there are ALOT of people [mostly girls] who suck at it. but the teacher and other students encourage them to work at it. girls need a little extra encouragement because everything is primarily male dominated, especially the use of a guitar. atleast thats how i see it. thats just my 2 cents though. :)

"i collect friends, i have about three." - ville valo

"listen, ryan's at it again. he just got stabbed in the eye with a fork and now he has to rock a pirate patch for atleast a month. its ridiculous." 'valo' *bam margera*


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(@betsy)
New Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4
 

Girls are more interested in playing songs and instrumentals that are fulfilling... and not about showing off with solos and lead work. Most blokes who play guitar are very particular and fiddle alot with their instrument ( they thrive on perfection ). Girls don't worry about that type of stuff. I've been playing guitar for seven years, i'm 19, and I teach. Most of my students are blokes in their 30's who wanna play Metallica and Creedance and all that type of stuff. They seem to play better because they are concerned with getting the best sound possible - this also leaves them frustrated at times...

It's so sad that women aren't given the credit they deserve for playing guitar. Most ppl are surprised when you tell them you play... it is just so universally acknowledged that men are the masters of their musical tool - and women aren't taken too seriously.


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(@97reb)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1223
 

Sex sells, b.s. Talks, Talent does the walk. If you don't like a band cause they have women, so be it.

Don't remember who it was that said they don't think there is sexism anymore, sorry, but you are wrong. Sexism and racism and classism and all that stuff keeps going on and on and on. Usually it is the people stuck in the "category" that keeps perpetuating the problems too. Get over it all and bring yourself to a new level of humanity.

Okay, sorry, I'll get off the soapbox now. All, I can say to the ladies is this - Play, and play with all your heart, attitude, anger, or whatever emotion drives you. That is when I think peoples music is the best.

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


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(@nicktorres)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5468
 

97, that makes little sense.

Sexism, racism, classism exist only because the affected make it so?

Without an oppressor, you can't have the oppressed.

Classism:
The people in the Sudan are being raped, tortured and killed because they want to?

The 1994 genocide in Rwanda, where 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed by Hutu militias, happened because the 800,000 people were perpetuating the problem?

Serbia?

Sexism:
Morgan Stanley agrees to pay a $54 million sex discrimination lawsuit. Now I know they didn't settle just for kicks.

Walmart has a class action suit with 1.6 million members for sex discrimination because the women made themselves the victims?

State Farm Insurance pays $240 million to 800 employees in the "boom-boom room" scandal, why?

Smith Barney pays 100 million, AMEX pays 31 million, etc etc.

Racisim:

In the racism front, how about the US government?

"In 1982, a report by the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights charged that systematic racism carried out by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) was one of the major causes of land loss among black farmers. The Commission found that USDA employees had routinely denied black farmers credit and information about USDA programs that was readily accessible to white farmers. The situation was considered so dire, the Commission projected that if nothing were done, black-owned farms would cease to exist by the year 2000. In 1990, a report issued by Congress's House Committee on Government Operations concluded that little had changed for the black farmer since the 1982 report had been published. " -(Meredith Flanagan and Laura Inoyue - Oxfam America)

I know that there are a lot of frivolous cases. I agree that people in general need to take responsibility for their own situation. I'd even agree that some people use their status as a member of those groups as an excuse for not trying.

In the US our welfare and food stamp programs are broken and are abused incredibly, they need to be fixed. But to lump all of the recipients into the category of abusers is wrong.

and to say:

"Usually it is the people stuck in the "category" that keeps perpetuating the problems too. Get over it all and bring yourself to a new level of humanity. "

... IMHO is just short sighted.

But along the same lines of what I think you were saying, I'll say this:

Don't allow yourself to be limited by someone else's label.

Nick


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(@97reb)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1223
 

Right, I did over generalize. There are many people in many 2nd world and third world countries that are simply powerless due to their opressors. I honestly feel for their suffering. It is a great Shame. I was speaking more in terms of the US. Sure there are people in the US who feel they are getting screwed. I work at Wal-Mart and feel I am screwed. Why - because of that lawsuit saying that women and minorities were underrespresented. Now, my college degree and 16 years of retail mean nothing next to the Latino guy with a degree and six months of retail or the Black lady with no degree and six years of retail. I feel slighted by the white guys that are yessir men and kiss ass. Poor me.

I like being politically incorrect and speaking the truth about BS. That is everday life in the US and Worldwide. Do we have it better here in the US? You better bet your life we have it better than a lot of countries. Am I blessed? Depends on the big picture. What that is - only ours to guess.

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


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(@bassgirl)
Active Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 7
 

Hey there, thats a pretty heated debate you got going on.
All I know is sexism isn't as bad as it used to be. I can say that because I'm female and, being on the down side of it, it looks like it might be turning around. Not horribly fast but it's a crap load better then it used to be. :)

Anyways, back to the original topic. Being female makes you no better, unfortunatly. If it did, I WOULD BE AMAZING! :D I play bass, and have found it impossible to find other female bass players( in fact I know all of 7 bass players where I live), even female guitar players are hard to find out here. Perhaps part of the reason that there are few of us is noone has the passion or even the spark to start, and there is noone to for them to talk to. As everyone knows females are more comfortable with eachother than with a male so it would be great if there were just a couple more people all over the place for females to talk to. No?

I Disagree with a statement made saying that females don't care to get the songs perfect unlike men who will try forever to get it perfect. I personally cannot stand it when it's wrong and I will continue to work through it untill it is just as perfect as any male counterparts version.

All in all I think women have just as much talent and passion when playing any instrument and have to work just as hard as any man, so don't worry be happy and keep spreading the news that we can do it too! :D

P.S. I Dis-enjoy(yes I'm aware thats not really a word.... I make up my own words) the Whitestripes and can't descide who's worse, him or her.

Life goes on forever, and music lasts a lifetime. Get in and be heard.


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(@97reb)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1223
 

I have to admit I was having a bad time when I posted my last comment here and if I offended anyone, I apologize. "Now Bugger-off"!

It is a small world for metal fanatics. I welcome you fellow musicians, especially the metalheads!


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(@hobsonator)
Eminent Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 49
 

No


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(@elecktrablue)
Famed Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4389
 

After much passionate discussion with male band friends, I'd like to see some other people's thoughts on this one...  Is a girl automatically a better musician than a guy with equal skills?  I of course maintain, that if you suck you, you suck, even if you are a girl, and that it's insulting to women to hold them to a lower standard.  Should a women be a rolemodel, even if she's not up to par?  

No, a girl is simply as good as she is and no better, no worse. I've known some women players that could put a whole bunch of men to shame, but they are few and far between. As a female player myself, I agree that it is insulting to hold women to a lower standard than men. There have been so few of us in the past, though, that we are, still, a novelty. Even though there are more of us than ever before, people still tend to say things like "Wow, chick player", when they would never say "Wow, dude player". Everytime I jam with men that don't know me, I always get the obligatory "little lady" comments ("let that little lady sit in for one.... think you can keep up darlin'?") that I've learned to just ignore. As far as a woman being a role model even if she's not the best player around, though, I personally would have to say that, yes, she can be a role model. If she can influence one little girl (or little boy) to pick up a guitar and start playing, wouldn't that make her a role model? And, isn't (or shouldn't it be) the goal of a role model to hope that the one that he/she influenced surpasses his/her own talent? I think that a role model is anyone, regardless of their actual skill level, that can influence another person, in a positive way, and guide them to achieve a dream, like playing the guitar. IMHO

..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ -:¦:- Elecktrablue -:¦:-

"Don't wanna ride no shootin' star. Just wanna play on the rhythm guitar." Emmylou Harris, "Rhythm Guitar" from "The Ballad of Sally Rose"


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(@noteboat)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4933
 

I've known some women players that could put a whole bunch of men to shame, but they are few and far between.
Few and far between in what way? If I know 100 male guitarists, and 3 are great, I'll bet the same percentage applies to the females.

I've known some outstanding female musicians over the years, on a number of instruments. If I had to speculate on why there aren't more, I'd come up with a core reason that's a bit different from the common ones - it's the lifestyle. Since we're dealing with the male/female stereotypes here to begin with, who's more likely to want to hang out in smoky little dive bars for $25 a night, sleep 7 people to a budget hotel room on the road, and deal with all the uncertainties of not knowing how you're going to pay this month's rent if you don't get two more bookings?

As a general (and a very general) rule, the women I've known can't deal with the... um... accoutrements... that go with making music for a living, at least in the rock and roll sense, as well as the men I've known. Since the odds are heavily stacked against success, regardless of gender, maybe women are simply more realistic.

Notice that I'm dealing with the career issues - NOT the musical ones. Women are every bit the musicians that men are, and on every musical level - I think it's the transition from ability to career where the deck might be stacked unevenly. In my travels today, I met five other teaching musicians - one with a major symphony, one who tours with big names, and three average folks like me :) Four were men. Exactly half their students today (in total for all five, plus me) were female.

So... if half the student musicians are women, and only 17-20% of their teachers are (the pros they're learning from), the gap doesn't occur at the desire stage - it comes up later on. Having been teaching for 26 years, I can tell you firsthand that women do NOT lack the ability to learn the guitar in any way, shape, or form. The number of female students who ended up being able to blow me away with their natural gifts is exactly equal to the number of men - two of each sex spring immediately to mind. The total number of male to female students that I've taught are pretty darn close, too.

So, if the interest is there, and the ability is there, it's something else that prevents us from seeing as many women in the pro ranks as men. It's pretty clear to me it's nothing musical - which leads me to believe it's a lifestlye decision.

That will no doubt stir controversy... but I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts, from both sides of the gender fence.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


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(@elecktrablue)
Famed Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4389
 

IFew and far between in what way? If I know 100 male guitarists, and 3 are great, I'll bet the same percentage applies to the females.

I think you are absolutely correct! The only thing is, IMHO, it's going to be pretty easy to dig up 100 male guitarists at any given moment, it's going to be a lot more difficult to find 100 female guitarists at that same given moment, simply because there are fewer of us than there are male players. That's what I meant by "few and far between". Not at all that women can't keep up with the men, I am completely confident that we can. You're just going to run into a whole lot more male players than female players.

..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ -:¦:- Elecktrablue -:¦:-

"Don't wanna ride no shootin' star. Just wanna play on the rhythm guitar." Emmylou Harris, "Rhythm Guitar" from "The Ballad of Sally Rose"


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(@purple)
Reputable Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 346
 

This is a response to Noteboat and really has nothing to do with if being a girl makes you better - I think we all have to go on what we were given no gender biases.

Hmm... the difference between men and women guitarists occurs after the beginning stages if 50% of your students are females but 20% are teachers. Maybe women just don't make good teachers - this is a crack because woman are stereotyped to be better teachers than men and teaching is a female dominated field. So where are we losing the women?

I am going to take a stance here that first I have to say that I am a female (I guess woman but I am not prepared to call myself that yet, one day I will grow passed being 5 but not today.) Woman are just as capable as men to play the guitar. Woman aren't as committed to the guitar and it has nothing to do with the inability to be disciplined and practice. When we think guitarists, we think rock guitarists. More woman seem to be content with being more of a rhythm or acoustic guitarists. A Joan Baez or Nancy (or is that her sister) Wilson's ability should not be belittled to a male soloing virtuoso's ability. However, most woman are content to play chords (and usually sing along) and this is from the other female guitarists I have met, especially one who was more a song writer but I don't think she could play a pentatonic scale if you asked her. Exactly though, she picked up guitar for songwriting not to show up Hendrix. Maybe woman playing more acoustic style is just our nature since this is what we usually see from us. I think part of it though is nurture. I love rock music but it isn't too girly. Wait, I mean it isn't considered to be girly (despite all of the effeminate male rockers!) Society does play a roll in how we should see ourselves and what is appropriate for one to do. It begins from youth and maybe I am wrong because lord knows if I can't even call myself a woman, I certainly don't have kids but part of society being ingrained in us has to do with our parents. In other words, people treat their kids differently based on their sex unintentionally which causes parents to reiterate to their children social biases. Even my parents who were a little more ambiguous in their treatment of us, still did it unknowingly. I know men and women are different not just because of nurture, it is in our nature to be different. Hold on a second, I forgot where I was going with this.... OH ok, I guess what I am trying to say is that when people say that society is more open to women guitarists, it really isn't quite there yet. People may be open minded to not discriminate against a female guitarist, but society doesn't help create them. Maybe to break this cycle we need a more definitive female rock guitarist. I know we have several female greats but what we need is a great lead guitarist with the popularity of the Beatles since they were more popular than Jesus :P. I do agree women are less likely to like rock music by nature but as long as rock isn't seen as being girly, we will keep lacking female guitarists because women won't see themselves as one. When I say rock, I mean more the lead guitarists because Noteboat has shown that we aren't lacking in the desire to start playing but to go further with it. Now why don't the presidential candidates include important topics like the lack of female guitarists in their speeches and how to fix that? Did any of this make sense and am I totally wrong? Is rock not seen as girly because it is considered to be more aggressive and is it improper for women to be aggressive? I guess I will step off of my soap box.

Lastly, Noteboat, do you see difference in how men and women learn when teaching them? And if so, what are they usually?

I may have just hijacked this thread but Noteboat made me do it, I swear!

It's not easy being green.... good thing I'm purple.


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