No Girls Allowed?

Marilyn just asked me, "what fun do you get, sitting up there for hours playing guitar on your own, tabbing out songs?"

I said "well why don't you come upstairs with me, pick up a guitar and learn a few chords? Then you'll know why....."

I've been through this with my three daughters, all the ex-wives and ex-girlfriends, even a couple of stepdaughters......

Maybe we're just poles apart musically - but hell, most of the songs I've tabbed out are songs they like....I've played them, but just can't seem to influence ANYBODY to pick up a guitar - ah well, the 3-y-o grandson's here tonight, maybe he'd like to have a bash - and I do mean bash! - in the morning.....

I swear I'll get Marilyn playing one of these days......and Kayleigh........

I'll make it my mission in life!

:D :D :D

Vic

Wow, Purple! Evidently great minds DO think alike! :D I just ran across the same article last week and thought it definitely needed to be posted! If I had just gone through the archives, I probably would have run across yours! I think we ended up with a really great discussion and think it would be great if we could combine both threads into one. Lots more to discuss that way! But, since you've posted the link, everyone can go there and read the previous thread and comment there as well!

Haven't seen you in a while, Purple! Where ya been? We're trying to get the female collaboration off the ground again! Wanna join in?
Wow, I got called a great mind.... Elektra, I'm your friend for life! I'm so easy, one compliment is all it takes. Although, I do fear what I might have said in that previous thread.. I can not be held liable for prior thoughts and opinions as I overthink everything and like to spout out ideas even if I am not a complete subscriber. Anyway, I would love to join the girl collaboration, what's been going on so far? I didn't think anyone noticed I was missing - just craziness going on over here but I stop in every once in awhile to read the board.

Vic - Keep hope alive. My dad tried for years to get me to play guitar and I always said no. Partly out of childhood angst - whatever your dad is doing just ain't cool. I came around eventually and my only gripe now is that he could teach me more, I am basically self taught with some pointers here and there from him.

Intersting argument that made me join the forum. I am utterly convinced that there is nothing physical or psychologic about girls playing guitar (or any other instrument). Its just a social phenomenom based on gender bias. Like many other things in life - women are more associated with cooking and cleaning while men doing harder labour. The only solution is social change and all of us - males and females - have the responsibility to do it. As a male what I do is encourage female friends to pick up the guitar, play with them and comment when someone passes sexist comments while a female is on stage. For females its a bit harder. What they have to do is grab the instrument and try to forget stupid sex roles.

A female playing guitar live is passing a message, even if she doesn't open her mouth, and every single female counts. This reminds me when I was with my brother watching a band called Congo Bon Chic, who are all africans. Me and my bro are heavily anti-racist, unlike most people in my country. He passed a comment I will never forget: Look at these people, you don't say they're black, you say they're musicians. Same for females I think

First of all, Welcome to the boards Robert, always nice to have someone around who makes well thought out posts. This is the same point I was making about it being more of a social issue, certain instruments such as piano, violin flute etc. are more often associated with women than guitar. I've been talking to my wife about this alot since this topic came up again. She took guitar lessons for about 6 months when she was 12-13 then gave it up because the steel strings hurt her fingers. She was never allowed to develop calluses because she was told by her mother and aunts that only "workmen" had callused hands. Now granted, that was 40 years ago and some things have changed, but it got me wondering. In out society boys are taught to endure pain in sports, told to "Suck it up", to "take it like a man" , to ignore pain and work through it. Girls are taught by our society that they do not have to endure pain, that it is not shameful for them to stop because something is hard or painful as it would be for their male counterparts who would considered weak or "wusses" for quitting.

I don't know if this has bearing on it just tossing out some ideas and perspectives

Welcome to GuitarNoise, Robert! Always ready to welcome another enlightened person (male or female!). We look forward to seeing more of you around the boards!

First of all thank you for your welcome. Just wanted to ask, since my main passions are playing guitar (and studying music), and involving myself in social issues such as human rights, racism and poverty, if there is any forum that talks about both. In reality such things do go together. Bono used to say, 'Since I was young I always wanted to do something that I love and change the world, my job gives me the opportunity to do both' (lucky him).

Though I started using the forum now, I've been browsing guitarnoise for about three years, and its not the first time I encountered humane issues such as guitars not guns. I would appreciate it if you could direct me to any such forum topics.

First of all thank you for your welcome. Just wanted to ask, since my main passions are playing guitar (and studying music), and involving myself in social issues such as human rights, racism and poverty, if there is any forum that talks about both. In reality such things do go together. Bono used to say, 'Since I was young I always wanted to do something that I love and change the world, my job gives me the opportunity to do both' (lucky him).

Though I started using the forum now, I've been browsing guitarnoise for about three years, and its not the first time I encountered humane issues such as guitars not guns. I would appreciate it if you could direct me to any such forum topics.
They are kind of catch as catch can, just pop up from time to time usually here or in opinions. Mods keep a pretty tight lid on them as they can get out of hand fairly easily

Maybe we're just poles apart musically - but hell, most of the songs I've tabbed out are songs they like....I've played them, but just can't seem to influence ANYBODY to pick up a guitar -
:D :D :D

Vic

have you tried counter suggestion???? If there's anything i want my kids to do i tell them under no circumstances must they do such and such... that they're not allowed... :D

it's the same as when your child falls seriously in love with someone you can't stand... tell them they're wonderful... fantastic... you love them... when are they getting married...??? they'll dump them by midnight :wink:

have you tried counter suggestion???? If there's anything i want my kids to do i tell them under no circumstances must they do such and such... that they're not allowed... :D

it's the same as when your child falls seriously in love with someone you can't stand... tell them they're wonderful... fantastic... you love them... when are they getting married...??? they'll dump them by midnight :wink:

That is just pure evil, it is brilliant but evil :twisted:

First of all thank you for your welcome. Just wanted to ask, since my main passions are playing guitar (and studying music), and involving myself in social issues such as human rights, racism and poverty, if there is any forum that talks about both. In reality such things do go together. Bono used to say, 'Since I was young I always wanted to do something that I love and change the world, my job gives me the opportunity to do both' (lucky him).

Though I started using the forum now, I've been browsing guitarnoise for about three years, and its not the first time I encountered humane issues such as guitars not guns. I would appreciate it if you could direct me to any such forum topics.

There really isn't a specific forum for social issues, but, you're right, they do occasionally pop up. And, as Teleplayer mentioned, some of those topics are rather hot button issues with some people, and with this being a world wide family guitar/music forum with great diversity in areas such as age, race, religion, politics, etc.., we moderators DO tend to keep a close eye on them when they appear just to make sure that no one is getting out of line and causing ill will among the members who don't happen to share his/her viewpoints. If they do happen to get out of control, the posts will either be locked or removed. I'm sure, however, that, there are plenty of other important social issues that many of our members would be interested in learning about, if they aren't already aware.

I will have to get back to you with specific posts as you requested. Time is short right now. Look for another post here!

Just to make myself clear, first of all I do not want to create any controversy. Personally I respect any religion, race or political ideology, even if they are completely different or even opposite to mine. What I suggested was discussing such issues in relation to the thing we definitely have in common - our love for guitar playing.

Musicians have combined such issues for a long time, both in lyrics (Bob Dylan, The Clash and numerous others) and in Behaviour (ex Ray Charles refusing to play in segregated bars).

On the other hand, I understand that some things might create hot arguments that might go out of hand, and away from the subject, so in this case I respect your standards. I don't think being a moderator is as easy as it seems and obviously you have to take all necessary precautions.

Wow that article in itself was a great motivator. Step aside people, the first female rock n' roll heroine has arrived!!

*coughs* at least as soon as I actually learn to play :)

I think it's a matter of what girls are influenced to do in their younger years. I mean, how many girls do you know whose parents bought them a guitar at a young age. I think my family is an exception-- My sister saved up for an acoustic early in high school, and I bought my first electric in middle school, and my father was nice (and excited) enough to buy me an amp.

It is also highly dependent on the sort of people you spend time with, especially when you are younger. If someone is surrounded by musicians, there is a sense of competition and more of a reason to play.

I think the reason that there haven't been many prominent, progressive female guitarists is because women have only recently been influenced to do these sorts of things.

I'm in engineering, and I really feel like it's a similar situation. 7% is a reminiscent number, because that is the percentage of women in my particular field -- Mechanical Engineering. I don't think this is because women are bad at math and science. Quite the contrary. I just don't think that we necessarily have the role models/precedence to do so.

The only way to fix this, I think, is to get out there. If you're a girl, and you enjoy it? Go rock. Who knows how many other girls you will influence in the process. THAT is what will get more women in the field..nothing else.

That was a sad but true read. Robert and Teleplayer hit the nail on the head. In fact, Nancy Wilson says it best in the article "I was so young that there was no concept that it was the wrong thing to do." When society stops making it the wrong thing for girls to do, then more will do it. Sadly, girls get the message that it is more acceptable to be the groupie or in these times the "video ho" than the musician. That is one thing I have always admired about courtney love, she knew from the beginning it was better to be the musician than the groupie.

One of the hardest things for me has always been that you are forced into a role you don't want. I've seen comments about women who are scantally clad to "hide their lack of talent." Then you get the ones that cover up and say they do it so women know they don't have to show off skin. Don't want to be mean here but, how about I just wear whatever I want?

One day at work, me and a couple of other people were talking about instruments we play. One guy was eavesdropping and said "all female guitarists suck." I thought about yelling at him but didn't bother. I could've strummed a guitar with my tongue and he still would've said it, so why waste the effort.

But women can be just as bad. You get things like "show off your moxy" "you go girl" "way to represent." I always found that patronizing. They all seem to imply that I have some sort of handicap as a musician and by doing what I'm doing I'm overcoming it.

All I really want is: to do what I want, wear what I want, say what I want and play what I want without their being some social or political implication to it.

Anyone else ever felt this way?