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No Girls Allowed?

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Anonymous
(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

What I mean is the politics over take the music. For example, back in highschool we had a girl join the football team. Everyone was cheering when she came out at the pep rally because we had a girl on the football team for once. It really didn't go as anyone expected. She was the girl on the football team and that was all she was recognized for. She never got any "good touchdown" "great block" "awesome offensive tackle" "great pass." Everyone praised her for playing with the guys but that was it. She was there to say girls could play football, and that was all. Not necessarily fault of her own. I think everyone wanted her as a role model that they forgot she's there to play the game.

That is one of my biggest concerns, that the girl power message will completely overtake what my music is saying. That's why I really don't like to represent or go put into a roles I don't want.


   
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margaret
(@margaret)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1675
 

The part I don't understand is how one woman encouraging another ("show off your moxy" "you go girl" "way to represent") is interpreted as being either condescending or accepting/acknowledging chauvinism. It's like saying support/encouragment is only valid when it comes from anyone EXCEPT another woman (i.e., from a man), which is chauvinistic in itself.

I just don't get that.
Imagine a world where some people consider hair length to be relevent to ability (I have long hair). If I played something and someone with short hair said "way to go, hippy-locks!", that would be condescending. If someone with long hair said the same, that would be acknowledging that it was relevent, because otherwise why mention it?

On the one hand you argue that it is an entirely meaningless criteria, but on the other you use it as a criteria when lending support. Do you see where I'm coming from?

I guess I don't see it as using it as a criteria, rather it's only a tag. "Girl" or "sistah" in that context is like "dude," "bro," "man," "kiddo," "hot shot," it's not a qualifier saying this compliment is dependent on the fact that you're a female.

When one guy calls another guy "bro" or "dude" or "man" are they being condescending? No, those terms are usually used to express kinship and reinforce or enhance the compliment, not to dilute it.

Admittedly, when it's woman to woman there may be an added dimension of revelling in "one point for our side", and when "our side" is the underdog, every point won tastes a little sweeter. But it doesn't mean the compliment isn't genuine, or was only given because the player is female.

I don't think "hippy-locks" and gender terms such as "man," "bro," or "sistah" are equivalent in their connotations. Even so, if someone with a crewcut said to you "way to go, hippy-locks!" it might still be a genuine compliment on your playing. Yes, they are making some sort of comment about the hair--could be "I dislike longhairs," could be "I never knew a longhair could play like that," could be "Hmmm, wonder how I'd look with my hair long." :lol:

Margaret

When my mind is free, you know a melody can move me
And when I'm feelin' blue, the guitar's comin' through to soothe me ~


   
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Anonymous
(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

I think most women are just more comfortable playing rythm guitar, playing acoustic or writing songs and I don't think that means there is something wrong. Like a couple of you already said, we are made differently than men. In life, we are the support. Even those of us who have careers and responsibilities outside the home are still the support system in it. Whether it be with family or friends we are the ones who "nurture, support", and "make the canvas for everyone else to shine on". It is only natural for that to spill over onto our musical lives. This could be the reason why there are more women musicians in classical or say country music than in rock. Those historically have been less showy and more group or even family oriented genres.

I used to just like to play rhythm until recently. It wasn't until my teacher started showing me how to play lead metal guitar than I really started getting into leads. I like it. There's a lot to explore, tapping, harmonics, vibrato bar, etc and any combination there of. When I do a jam with my friend, he typically plays rhythm while I do lead. Though he'll always stop and when I ask why he'll say "Sorry, was just watchin you." Which drives me nuts! Can't solo over nothing...............

I still like rhythm though, but I can always stop singing and go into a solo.


   
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Ellenback
(@ellenback)
Eminent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 26
 

Might be a little off topic, but I have experienced this kind of stigma as a female rock singer...and I've picked up a guitar to assist me in my fight against it. I may never be a fantastic guitarist, but it does give me control over what music I sing. I have been told, "oh, we're tired of havin' a chick singer.." and even, "Oh, good, the REAL (and also drunk/wasted MALE) singer is here, after I had spent over 2 hours warming up the band. I finally got my chance to shine, and though it was relatively short-lived, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat, NOW is my time to rule over what I want to do, not the guitar gods who play lead. And, if I was able, I'd love to play lead, just not ready for that stage of learning yet - the barre chords are new enough to me!

Have you ever been turned down for an audition as soon as they see you? Is it because you're older, or female, or fat.....or what? Without listening to you?

I have, so I choose and write MY songs now, and I plan on gigging again, MY way.

New to this forum, and I hope to touch base with all you movers, shakers, and thinkers, as evidenced by this thread. Well said, Margaret, I do comprehend your stance.

Elle


   
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Laura Lasley
(@lauralasley)
Estimable Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 131
 

Welcome Elle!

Yes, there are biases all around in terms of what a rock singer or guitarist 'should' look like. You always hope that your ability will speak for itself, but not always true.

What an amazing thread; EB thanks for starting this! I can't believe I've been off Forum that long or just missed it. All of the thoughtful opinions on here are what makes the GN community so great.

I love to rock out, would love to play lead like Jimi, but realize that at this point in my life I don't have the hours and hours to put into learning the riffs and knowing the guitar as well as I know my car, for instance. When I played classical piano for hours, I could make that baby sing! Practice, practice, practice and knowing your instrument well and what you can do with it are the keys. Wish I had more hours for playing fun. Life, unfortunately, has a way of intervening. And rhythm fits better when you want to sing as well. Or at least for my brain. Hard to walk, talk chew gum, pat my head and rub my tummy all at the same time. To me, that's figuring out how to sing and play lead! (Or Bass, or anything but straight rhythm!)


   
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Anuradha
(@anuradha)
Active Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 18
 

I just finished reading the article, and I feel that the gender bias is definitely there. When a female classmate of mine overheard me telling a friend that I might get a guitar for my birthday, she told me "Why do you want to play the guitar? It's more like a guy thing. If I were you, I'd play the piano." So it exists, so much so that even girls start believing that they're not supposed to play the guitar.

Apart from myself, I know 3 other female guitar players in my area. Most of the girls I talk to are skeptical when they hear that I'm trying to play the guitar. The idea that 'girls don't play guitar' is firmly rooted in their minds.


   
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Bish
 Bish
(@bish)
Famed Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 3636
 

So it exists, so much so that even girls start believing that they're not supposed to play the guitar.

Apart from myself, I know 3 other female guitar players in my area. Most of the girls I talk to are skeptical when they hear that I'm trying to play the guitar. The idea that 'girls don't play guitar' is firmly rooted in their minds.

Then it seems you should be trying to prove them wrong. Get busy... :D

Bish

"I play live as playing dead is harder than it sounds!"


   
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SGinCYQX
(@sgincyqx)
Honorable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 404
 

Well, take this for what it's worth, but I can't stand "The Great Kat". She's an overconfident, unoriginal Yngwie impersonator who falls way short of the mark IMO.

Ewan McGregor: I said, "Eve, I want you to look after my wedding ring while I'm away," and she started to cry and I said, "Eve. Eve, I can't wear my ring or I won't get laid on the trip!"


   
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Ignar Hillström
(@ignar-hillstrom)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

I don't get the fuzz. If you like to play guitar, play guitar. If people have an opinion about it then that's their problem. For what it's worth:

Virtuoso? No way. But I appreciate her a billion times more then any Malmsteen. And that has nothing to do with her being a woman, she just makes excellent music. I'm sure there's a lot of prejudice girls/women have to struggle against but hey, that's life. One way or the other everyone will run into prejudice, using that as an excuse is for wankers. Or the female equivalence.


   
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musicfreak14
(@musicfreak14)
Active Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 13
 

First, I couldn't even read the entire article, I was too mad. WIthin the first page I wanted to jump up and bash the heck out of my computer. :evil:

GUITARIST ARE GUITARISTS!!!!!!!!!! SHouldn't we all be united for the love of guitar? Instead of "OooOOO she's a girl so she can't be a guitar leagend"

Me and my band are just starting up (ALL GIRLS AND PUNK ROCK / METAL & PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!) :wink:
This article just makes me want to go out and kick *** (butt) even more than before!!!!!!! In fact, I'll probably go and play guitar for the next few days straight.!!!!!!!!!!

ARrrrRRGGHHHhhh….I'm foaming at the mouth……..

“We live in a culture where the electric guitar, at least when it's played at full and distorted blaze, is considered unladylike.”
THIS IS THE 21 CENTURY!!!!!! My little sister belches and friends (who are girls) belch louder than any guy!

“Unladylike” PA-LEASE!!!!!! I'll give you unladylike…… :twisted:

"Rock is a male form," she says, speaking at just under 150 miles per hour. "For an adolescent boy, your guitar speaks for you, it says what you can't say in real life, it's the pain you can't express, it's rage, hormones pumping. Women can be strangers and all of a sudden have an intimate conversation. Boys can't do that. The guitar for a boy speaks to an aggressive sexual impulse and suppressed emotionality, the things that boys can't share, even with other members of the band. It's a combination of rage and reserve and ego."

I don't know about you ladies, but I've NEVER had an intimate conversation with a stranger! Stereotypical enough?

Half the problem is the little tramps that run around on MTV, setting a bad example of girlkind. Dancing a wiggling around and singing bouncy songs about loveing some guy that hates them.... it makes me want to puke.
ARR.

Sorry, maybe I went a little over board with the rage…..anyway

Sorry, it's good that you guys brought this to my attention. I think I'm going to go and show all my friends this.


   
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corbind
(@corbind)
Noble Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1735
 

For what it's worth:

Nice video.

"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."


   
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Dan Lasley
(@danlasley)
Noble Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2118
 

MusicFreak, nice rant, don't hold back. 8)

Doesn't Pink have a song about Stupid Girls, which references the MTV wannabees?


   
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Scrybe
(@scrybe)
Famed Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2241
 

One way or the other everyone will run into prejudice, using that as an excuse is for wankers. Or the female equivalence. OI!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Girls can wank too! Stop being so sexist!!!!!!!! :lol:

Dsiclaimer: Scrybe promises to read this thread in its entirety at a later date - for now, recovering from food poisoning :oops: is preventing me.

I play guitar because I want to, not because I want to prove a political point. But then I also played football (soccer), so.......

I've had many guys give me jib about being a girl playing guitar, even 'friends' saying they'd have asked me to join their band only they didn't want a girl in it. :roll: I've also watched (to slight chagrin) Noel Galagher on tv saying girls can't play guitar. Well I'd kick his a$$ in a jam even now when recovering from from poisoning.........and the same goes for a fair amount of the guys who've given me jib. :mrgreen:

I want to be the best guitarist/musician I can be, though I know that's a never-ending journey. And it isn't about being flashy. I just want to reach a point where whatever I'm feeling/thinking I can express instantly, however hard or mellow that might be.

There's deffo a girls-dont-rock view. Recently I was watching a show about Glastonbury where they did a feature on why there are so many girls in the audience and so few on stage, they even interviewed girl rockers like Beth Ditto from the Gossip, who agreed. They did point out that there were more girl rockers now than in previous years. But, funnily, they started the enquiry with the question wy girls don't play guitar, yet all the people who got cited were singers, drummers, etc. All the 'girl rock bands' had guys playing the guitars!?!

Personally, it would be kewl to see more women play guitar. But to be completely honest, the current state of affairs vis a vis how many women do play guitar now doesn't really bother me that much at all. I don't play guitar for women. I play guitar for me. And the paucity of decent and prominent women guitarists just leaves the door wide open for my stride into the pantheon of Rock N Roll legend, and my future massive bank balance and guitar collection courtesy of sponsorship. :wink:

Seriously though, when I listen to guitars I don't think "that's a guy playing" or "that's a girl playing" - I think "that's good" or "that's bad".

What really irks me though is when girls who play guitar get press for the fact that they are girls who play guitar, when the guitar playing often isn't that hot. If it had been a guy, they'd just be labelled a singer, or a singer-songwriter, but for some reason girls seem to get overcredited ffor their guitar playing when they do break through in the media or whatnot. perhaps this is itself a contributing factor to the lack of good girl guitarists - maybe many of us feel we don't have as high a bar to reach as the boys..... :roll:

Hope that made sense, I'm off to get some desperately needed sleep.

Ra Er Ga.

Ninjazz have SuperChops.

http://www.blipfoto.com/Scrybe


   
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Dan Lasley
(@danlasley)
Noble Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2118
 

I play guitar because I want to, not because I want to prove a political point. But then I also played football (soccer), so.......

You didn't make the Liverpool Ladies? Here in the US, there are equal opportunities for soccer for boys and girls in most towns, which continues (mostly) at the college level. Unfortunately, womens professional sports have not been successful... yet. I think having the EPL big teams sponsoring a womens league is excellent.


   
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GrungeSunset
(@grungesunset)
Honorable Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 342
 

I've had many guys give me jib about being a girl playing guitar, even 'friends' saying they'd have asked me to join their band only they didn't want a girl in it.

Me and my band are just starting up (ALL GIRLS AND PUNK ROCK / METAL & PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!) :wink:

I never understood the whole 'all girl' concept. Especially if you're someone upset about being turned down from a band for being a girl. Realistically, getting shot down at an audition for being a girl then making an all girl band is the same thing. Unless you are in an all girl band because that's how things worked out, then it's basically the same thing. A guy shows up to audition for your band and you reject him for being a guy because you want an all girl band. How is this any different than being turned down for being a girl?*

*you is a generic term referring to no one specific

"In what, twisted universe does mastering Eddie Van Halen's two handed arpeggio technique count as ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?!" - Dr Gregory House


   
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